Feeding Without Fear: A Conversation About Breastfeeding, Pumping, and Support with Tamari Jacobs

Feeding a baby is never just feeding a baby. It’s pressure, hope, instinct, confusion, grief, and connection often all at once. In this episode, Chaya sits with lactation consultant Tamari Jacobs of One With the Pump for a grounded, honest conversation about what mothers are really navigating when it comes to breastfeeding, pumping, supplementing, or stopping.

Together, they talk about the myth that breastfeeding “just comes naturally,” the loneliness of finding the right support, why understanding the why behind guidance matters, and the quiet grief that can live inside feeding decisions, even when those choices feel like the right ones.

This isn’t a how-to. It’s a steady, human conversation meant to offer comfort, clarity, and permission to trust yourself and reach out when you need to.

Grab a warm cup and settle in.

You can find and work with Tamari on any social platform  ⁨@onewiththepump⁩  
Find her Ultimate Pumping Course here - https://onewiththepump.thrivecart.com/the-ultimate-pumping-course/ 
Use code 'EVENINGTEA' for 20% off (Thanks Tamari!!) 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Evening Tea, a slow after-bedtime space for women who are exploring motherhood differently. Here we talk about the things you whisper about with your closest friends, the tender, the intuitive, and sometimes controversial. From pregnancy, homework to postpartum healing, vaccines, natural health, motherhood, parenting identity, and everything in between. Nothing is off the table here. Pour yourself a cup of tea, take a deep breath, and settle in. I'm Kaya, and this is the conversation that you've been craving. If you're listening right now, I want you to imagine that we're sitting together at the end of the day. Nothing to fix, nothing to decide, just space to talk about something that carries a lot more weight than people care to admit sometimes. Tonight we're talking about feeding babies, breastfeeding, pumping, supplementing, stopping, all the baby feeding stuff. This conversation is one that I have been sitting with probably since I was pregnant with my first child over three years ago. Everywhere I look, I see different reactions from different people. Pressures, confusion, not really knowing where to go, a lot of loneliness. I see women who chose not to breastfeed. Absolutely they're right. But without really understanding why it's important. And I see women who chose to breastfeed start out hopeful and then stop because they weren't supported in the ways that they needed. I also see my own relationship with breastfeeding. It gave me this instant shared closeness with my baby. And I loved that. My first breastfeeding journey was 18 months long. And I only stopped because I was pregnant and it got too painful for me to continue. My second one was shorter. I had to stop at 11 months for some personal reasons. And I don't think it's spoken about enough that there's a bit of like a deep sadness surrounding choosing to stop breastfeeding. Even without choosing if your baby's the one who chose to stop breastfeeding, I think there's a sadness in that. And today I'm sitting down with Tamari Jacobs from One with the Pump. Tamari spends her time with moms in very real moments, feeding their babies, pumping around the house, trying to understand what their bodies are doing and why. I wanted to hear her voice here because she holds both experience and the humanness behind it at the same time. So we're gonna talk about support, about choice, about trust, and about what moms actually need when it comes to feeding their babies.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Hello, thank you for having me. I'm actually pumping right now, so don't worry. We're totally on brand this morning. We're totally on brand.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Thank you so much for coming on. I would love to hear how you found your way into being a lactation consultant, into helping moms feeding their babies. Yes. What are you here?

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Yeah, it is. I'll give you the shorter-ish version, even though it always ends up being long every time I say that. So I actually used to be a teacher. I used to teach three-year-olds. Um, I went to school for to be a teacher. I had my masters. I went, I thought I was gonna be doing that my whole life. And then I had a very tumultuous breastfeeding experience with my first child born in 2017. I really tried to nurse him. It really did not work. It was, I ended up being what I call forced into exclusive pumping because, you know, I really wanted to nurse him. He couldn't latch. I didn't know how to get him on. But pumping was somewhat working enough. So I ended up just pumping for him for about 10 months. And it was, it was an okay experience. It was it was quite lonely. I didn't know anyone else that was doing it. It was really like you think it's not talked about now, it was really not talked about back then. There, there was nothing on Instagram. You can you you couldn't type something in and find a million different things. There wasn't TikTok. There was really nothing to find. It was like a Facebook group that was a little bit unhinged. But, you know, I got through it and it was, you know, it was good, it was good enough. Um, I kind of just closed that chapter, moved on, and then when I got pregnant again in 2019, I really wanted the opportunity to nurse then. My daughter was born in the beginning of the pandemic. Like she was born in March 2020. So there was nothing, yeah. March 2020 was like Zoom was still not a thing yet, but you also couldn't be with anyone. So there was really, really no support. I ended up Yeah, oh my gosh, I can't imagine how. Yeah, it was it was wild. Um, but I ended up pumping for her as well. And a coup a bunch of my friends, we all had babies at the same time. And because I had pumped in the past with my son, a lot of my friends were asking me questions, and I was like, oh, like you guys I kind of know what's going on. So I decided to put all those into an Instagram, and then I was just like doing this on Instagram with no certification, no anything. I started in May. And then in August, I remember I was at the pool with my mom. We were hanging out, and I was like, should I like get a certification? And then she was like, Yeah, why not? And I was like, right, I was like, I really could continue doing what I'm doing, but like again, it wasn't like nowadays where someone on Instagram would be like, you know, bullied or whatever. Like, I and I don't want to say as they should be, but like they shouldn't. But I'm saying, like, it's not like now where everyone's like, Do you have credentials? What are your credentials? Like everyone's like, in it. This was like bad, like, no one was looking at anything. I I probably could have gone on until now without having the actual certification. But then my mom was like, it like I I I basically went for a CLC, not an IB CLC. So the people that like, so it's still a lactation, it's a lactation counselor instead of consultant. And just for you guys' understanding, they don't talk about pumping in either of those programs. So it really didn't make it. I don't want to say it didn't make a difference, but I knew I wasn't gonna do latching. I knew I was, I didn't want to go to like I I was and still very much feel, it's a little better now, but like I felt very triggered at the time by people that were nursing. So I knew there was no way I was going to people's houses and watching their baby scream at their breasts. That was like, that is like the most torturous thing for me. So I knew I wasn't doing that. So I just wanted to get somebody behind my name. So we ended up taking this online course for 50 hours. It ended up being very helpful, even though it had nothing to do with pumping. But it's it is, you know, it was it was good to be able to have that. And then after that, I felt more comfortable to start really doing consults and I had my course. And um, everything kind of just led after each other, but it definitely was not a planned journey. It really just kind of happened as it happened, and I'm beyond thankful that it did. That is awesome. I love that it started with your own experience. Yes. Oh, I feel like most things do, right? Most people start things because they don't have it when they need it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Why why else? That's reason to start something. Exactly. I love that you just took it upon yourself to be that person for your friends. Like help them through the confusion and like.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah, I don't really know how it happened. I think that I guess it always had an like I remember before I I think we all make fun of influencers, right? Like everyone makes fun of influencers. So like I think before, as one, I could say that. Before I was one, I was like, you know, we'd all just be like, like, I remember I have a video of myself like pretending to be an influencer designed by friends. And I was like, oh, here's the LV pump. And I was like making fun, I was pretending to be an influencer. And like now I remember the kids just look funny. Yeah, I guess I like always, listen, I've always been outgoing, I've always been confident, which are definitely very important qualities when it comes to being an influencer. And I also have, I don't want to say I have very thick skin, but I have thick enough. So that, you know, I have to say I'm very thankful that I really only get a lot of positivity, but once in a while, it's like you have to let the things go on there because people just have things to say. I'm thankful that it really doesn't come up very often, but I don't know. I just, I guess because I had done it and they kept asking me, and I I found this we like this kind of passion for it. I don't really know where it came from. Well, for context, my grandmother actually was a Lama's, she was a Lama's coach back in the day. My aunt is currently a tool, lactation consultant. So we were like familiar. Daily business. Yeah, like my mom would always like, I would always hear stories about my mom and my aunt that would be at my grandmother's like Lama's classes. It was in the teams. I'm very thankful because I didn't really realize what kind of passion I had for it until I started. And now I feel like it's kind of a dual passion of I do love helping moms, I do love being a lactation consultant, and I really love being an entrepreneur and working for myself and like being able to be a mom. Like both of those things. Like I love being do I love sitting down every day to do something something I'm passionate about, and I love that it's a schedule that I was able to create.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

I love that. I know that there's a lot of like confusion out there when it comes to breastfeeding or pumping. And I myself, and I know a lot of my friends too, a lot of people I've spoken to or worked with, felt like this quiet like pressure and like people judging you when like other people might not be judging you, but you just feel that way. For what and for choosing to breastfeed, choosing not to breastfeed, choosing to pump, choosing not to pump. Like, I feel like every choice people make, someone has an opinion on it. And I want to hear like if anyone you work with has that and comes to you with that, like sorry, internal bless you. If anyone comes to you with that like internal battle of like, oh my god, everyone's freaking out at the choice I make, how do you help them through that?

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Yeah, I love that. So I'm actually kind of changing my stance a little bit. I mean, I think the more conversations I have about it, I actually get more passionate about the change and how I feel. Because I think we've spent the last 10 to 15 years convincing moms that it's totally okay to use formula, which it is, by the way, that I've been saying that like I feel like we're now we're at the point where moms actually feel the need to defend the fact that they're breastfeeding. Because now it's like, oh that. And I think that no matter what, someone's gonna have an opinion, but it's up to you how much power you want to give them and what you feel about it. And if you've heard me in other podcasts, like I do say I say this a lot because I really stand behind it, where I say that if you are going to nurse or pump, you have to have this intangible want to do it because it doesn't like you have to work so hard to make it work. Like there are a couple of people, like I have one friend that like she literally from birth picks up her shirt, the baby latches, and she has no problem. She's never worried about milk supply, she's never, she's never worried about anything. And I'm just like that. It literally it literally sounds like a dream. I'm like, that is just so wild to me. It's very uncommon to be honest, but you have to have this just internalized want to do it. And if you have that, you need to just ignore everyone else, assuming it is not affecting your mental or emotional health. So the only time where I tell moms, because I work with all kinds of moms, so I have moms who feel like they want to do this, it's working out pretty well. They just feel overwhelmed because like they don't really know, they don't know what to do here, they don't know what to do there. So they just want that, you know, that help. So they they book a console, they buy my course, they get the information, then they're like, okay, this can work. I'm fine with this. Then you have the moms who are doing okay. They're they're like a B minus. We're like, it's not going amazing. We help them as much as we can. It's not going to be a smooth journey. Meaning, whether they're, you know, they're always going to be using at least one bottle of formula a day. And again, guys, nothing wrong with formula, but if you want to fully breastfeed, it does feel like failure to have to use formula. I'm just like, we're not gonna spend the whole conversation here discussing why. That's that is the truth.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

No, but it does. Yeah. From experience, it really feels like a failure, even though it shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

I remember making that bottle for my son and being like, I'm making my son crystallite, I'm I'm giving him complete disgust. Like, look what I'm giving him. It's not, but we're not here to talk about that because it isn't. But if you want to do it and you have and you you have to do it, it feels like failure. So I have those moms who are riding at like a B minus, where whether they are going to have to, let's say, pump seven times a day for their entire journey, or they're going to have to do one bottle of supplementation per day, or whatever it is, like it's okay and they're doing okay, but the minute that they're done, it's gonna be a huge release. Then I have the other moms who are literally like they're they're on a never-ending treadmill where they're trying a hundred different things, or they're pumping multiple, like way more times a day than a normal person should, or they're triple feeding, which means that they're starting off with nursing, following up with a bottle, and following up by a pump. Yeah, I also call that hell on earth. It was. Yeah. It's just, it's terrible. Or like they end up they're only getting not only, but you know, it feels like only getting two bottles of breast milk and the rest they're doing formula, and it ends up being this, this hamster wheel of a journey. And for that, you know, it's a very slippery slope into post-party depression and anxiety, super slippery. And those are the moms that I want to watch out for. Those are the moms where I have a consult with them, I talk to them about what they need to do, and I spend the last 10 minutes saying, I want you to know that if you want to stop and you don't want to do this, you don't need it, but you have my permission to stop. And I say, if I were you, I'm not sure how long I would do this for. And once they hear that, they're like, Because personally, the reason why I'm able to pump and do all this is because it works for me. And the minute that it stops working for me, I I I stop. Um, and if it wasn't working for me, then I wouldn't have gone into this professionally. And I really stand by that. That, you know, as long as it's working, that's great. But, you know, as you were saying in the beginning, a little bit about your journey, probably would I had a conversation, I would probably be like, I feel like you should probably stop.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yeah. And I was about to say, like, if I heard that in the beginning of my first, my first um breastfeeding journey, I probably would have stopped. And I feel like there's a a little bit of a double-edged sword to that because for some people, they really need to stop for their mental health. Like that type, that type of triple feeding is literally hell on earth. Like you said, and I was doing it for weeks on end, and it felt like it was never ending, and it was awful.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Yeah, it's it's literally like terrible. And the problem is when moms don't don't know that that's not normal, but that's it's supposed to be something temporary. They think that they have to do that forever. Like, if I get a mom that's been triple feeding for more than a couple of weeks, I'm like, you need to like we need to figure something out. And in that situation, a lot of times, you know, sometimes when I talk to moms, it ends up being more of a therapy session than anything else. And honestly, like I tell moms all the time, there's no, like, I'm cost a similar amount to getting a therapist. So if you need to get a therapist to talk about your breastfeeding journey, I am the good a good person to talk to. And it ends up sometimes for a lot of people being, you know, being somewhat of a therapy session because no one gets them. Their husband doesn't get them. It's not that they don't want to, but they can't. Even their mom or their sister, like everyone's journey is so specific. So different. And even the people that love you the most and want to support you the most, it's very, very difficult. A lot of times, you know, like we'll have to talk to them, and if I get a mom that comes to me and she's been doing this for a month or doing this, whatever, we spend the last 10 minutes having a conversation about the fact that this is you cannot continue doing this. And a lot of times I will tell them here are your choices. You can either continue nursing and stop pumping, which means that you won't have a ton of milk supply. You can do it until alas, and you'll just follow up the rest with formula. Or I tell them the opposite, if breast milk is more important to you. So here's my main question I ask them when we're doing this. I say, what's more important to you? Is it nursing or is it breast milk? It's not the same thing. So if they say nursing, I say nurse, but I say you're not effectively emptying. So, you know, whether I tell them to like go down from 10 pumps a day or eight pumps a day to two pumps, I say it's not gonna last forever, but it'll last, but it lasts. Or I tell them if breast milk is more important, I tell them to stop the nursing. And I said, if you want to do it one time in the morning, one time at night, you can. But doing this roundabout, because I remember remember, like you nurse first for 30 to 40 minutes, and then the baby needs a 10 to 15 minute bottle, and then you have to pump for 20 to 30 minutes, and then you have to do that again an hour later. So it's just not sustainable for life, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

I feel like it's it's also one of the things that for the people who know how hard like triple feeding is for that amount of time, like I only know now because I did it how easy it was to slip into postpartum depression and and other like postpartum disorders.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Because mine went undiagnosed for for months because of that journey. But I was saying before, like, I feel like it's a little bit of a double-edged sword, because had I not triple, had I not been triple feeding, I would never have been able to continue my breastfeeding journey for 18 months as long as it did. Um, and it's it's kind of like this balance where each person has to figure out what's important to them of like, yes, my mental health is important. It's the most important thing. So I could be the best functional mom ever. But like, if breastfeeding is that important, maybe it is worth it to do a couple weeks of triple feeding to get to that point where you're able to drop the pump and the bottle to just nurse. And it's something whoever's listening, if this is applicable for you, take the time to figure out if that's the direction you want to go and what's most important for you. Because breastfeeding is a beautiful journey. Not breastfeeding is also feeding your baby, is just feeding your baby at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, it's 100%. Um, I also do say that formula and triple feeding 100% saves journeys. And that's why, like, when I have a mom that comes to me and they're like, well, my baby isn't gaining weight, or I'm not making enough milk, X, Y, and Z, I will tell them to start triple feeding. You know, like I'll say, like, but I'll give them the expectation of you probably should not be doing this for more than three weeks to a month. And I need you to come back and book a follow-up session in three weeks from now because you like this. And I think that's the biggest problem is that moms don't have the support. So they don't know like when to stop, how long to do this for. There's no one helping them along the way. Their doctors don't know. Their doctors just say, give a bottle of formula and leave them away. And they don't know because they're not getting the support from a lactation consultant that knows what they're talking about. So it's really, really important that if you if this is something that you're going through right now, you need professional help for someone to tell you, like, this is what you're doing, tell me when you're pumping, tell me how much you're getting in the bottle, tell me when your baby's eating, how many ounces of your baby be eating, you know, how long are you pumping for? Let's philantise you. Like these things will make a huge, huge, huge difference.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. They make the biggest difference.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

And they go very unnoticed, which is, which is like I'll have a mom come to me, and she'll be like, and I understand everyone's everyone's different. So I don't, everyone spends money on what's important to them. So I never like judge, but I always I find it funny because I was the same way. Like, they'll go and they'll drop like three, four hundred dollars on Amazon buying like all this random stuff, seeing what's gonna work. If they will just spend that on a lactation consultant that knows what they're talking about, okay, that knows what they're talking about, because there's plenty that don't, which is also what detures people away when you are often, you know, getting, you know, when you go to someone, I had a terrible lactation consultant. And I always think back because I had a lactation consultant when my first son was like three days old. And I always think if I had someone that was good, my whole life could have been different. And I know now that that didn't happen because otherwise I wouldn't have one with the pump. So I'm happy. But had I had someone that was actually good then, I could have had a completely different life. You know, but I always say, don't beat yourself up for the information that you didn't know you needed at the time. I didn't know what I didn't know. So I could, it wasn't like I said, like, oh, I'm not gonna do this or I'm not gonna pay for this. I literally didn't know the information that I needed. And no one else told me because I was a first-time mom. Majority of moms that struggle the most are, of course, first-time moms because they don't know what the heck they're doing. And majority of the moms that come to me for support are second and third-time moms once they know that it didn't have to be that way. It didn't have to end that way. And I'm determined to change something. And I'm like, welcome, girl, I'm here to help you.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah, I love that. And I love that so many people, after having their first baby and having whatever journey they went through, are able to be in that headspace where they're like, oh, it actually didn't need to be like that. And I could have used the support and I'm gonna get it the second or third time around. I love that that's like a concept that we're able to like have as just as women in general, that it doesn't always have to be a hard journey. You could you could there's so many different ways to get support. Yes, exactly. 100% I know for me, like the times that I felt the most supported during my breastfeeding journey was when the lactation consultants that I worked with were explaining why and I guess like the science behind the certain things that they were suggesting. And I'm curious on your end, like as a professional, what do you see in a mom when they understand the reasoning behind the suggestion versus when they're just taking it as it comes? You're saying the mom of the lactation consultant? The moms, like for a mom to understand about like milk ducts and things like that, when it's explained. I felt like for me it was so so helpful. I don't know if it is for other people, it could just be I overexplained.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Yeah, no, I I think that's very person specific. And I think that comes with being able to be a good lactation consultant, where like I I do I will do a phone call consult rarely, only in a desperate situation because I don't like it. Because while I'm going through a consult, I am looking at your face and I'm watching your eyes for overwhelm because I To kind of like pace myself to see how you're doing. And like, if I look, if I'm looking at you and you look like you're overwhelmed, you look like you're about to cry, you look like you're not getting it, I have to be able to figure that out. So very I in my experience, very few moms do like that. But I love to hear that you like it because I feel maybe at this point I'm not looking for it enough. Because for me, like the oh, the main scientific thing that I talk about in my consults is like, well, I'll explain what a letdown is, where I'll say that, like, like this is what I'll say. I'll I'll say, like, um, you turn on the pump, your nipples start to get pulled, and then you know, hormone hormones will go up to your brain, telling your your body that you need the milk, and then hormones go back down and your milk comes out, and I literally see a glaze over their eyes. And I'm like, that was just one minute, just forget about it. What we're talking about is your nipples start to pull, milk comes out. Like people, like, in my experience, they they they don't really, they don't really like it, but to hear that you do because everyone is so different, right? Everyone is so different.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah. I love that. Yeah, I like I know for me, if I didn't have the the science behind it, with my second baby, I was doing like some sort of triple feeding, but instead of pumping, I was using formula because like my mental health could not. Yeah. Um, and I guess whatever, double feeding. Yeah. And after a couple weeks, I was like, if I continue double feeding, knowing the knowledge I know about the science of breast milk and how my body works, with all those over-explaining that I I wanted, yeah, I was able to tell myself and make a decision to stop using those formula bottles because I knew my body would catch up. It might take a couple days, I might have to cluster feed for a couple days. Yeah. But I knew my body would catch up and it did. And it was so like it was so freeing to have had that science behind it to understand why I was doing what I what I wanted to do. Yeah, for I guess like for someone who wants that, you can always ask, always ask for more information.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I think that that's the biggest thing to take is that if on the other hand, if you are seeing a lactatic consultant and you're not happy with the information that you're getting, or you're not understanding, I know it's really hard because you're so postpartum, but I would be more than happy for someone to say, like, I really don't get that. So I know it's hard on moms to do that, but feel free, if you guys need to, to be like, can you explain to me, like, why do I have less milk ducks or why this or or why is this not coming out, or why do I have low supply? And like, feel free to ask a question. Like, you're paying them probably a decent amount of money, and you deserve to get the information that you need. So speak up for yourself, even though it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah, I agree. Another part about that that I want to add is there's a it's very hard when you're newly postpartum and you're looking for a lactation consultant and you don't know where to go, you don't know who to turn to. And what I found for myself that was really helpful, which is something that I help any mom that comes to me while they're pregnant that I'm helping them learn about postpartum. One of the main things we do when they're getting closer to their due date is we find a list and we write a list of local or virtual lactation consultants for them to be able to reach out to while they're still pregnant. Find someone you connect with while you're still pregnant, someone who's able to work with you at the level you're at. And when you give birth, you will have so much of an easier time because you've already met them. You are you're already comfortable having a conversation with them. And you might already be comfortable enough to be like, hey, can you explain that further? Or hey, I didn't get that.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Absolutely. Absolutely. Totally, I totally, totally deal. I often I often tell moms, I'm like, get a list of a lactation consultant that is not like your sister-in-law's cousin's mother. Like, that's not gonna be helpful. Like, ask your local mom's groups, your local WhatsApp chat, say like who is someone that you have personally used? Don't don't ask for recommendation because then everyone just throws their friends in there. Say that you personally use and you know, had experience with. Now, if they're on Instagram and you're self-pregating, I would definitely go look at their stuff, see if you get a vibe for them because you could like I know for myself right away, also, like if when I was like looking for a therapist or things like that, like you don't vibe with everyone. A lot of them are not on, especially the old school ones, the older ones are not on Instagram. But if they are, feel free to like just take a look, see what, see what they're all about, see if you kind of could connect with them at all.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Yeah. Also, if you need to, if you feel like you need a little bit more, reach out, message them. Yeah, exactly. Have a phone call, have a if they offer a consultation, have a consultation.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Even sometimes they're they're their voice. I mean, so it it depends. Like, I don't know for some like this, I'm not sure how much time they'll they'll give, but they'll at least give you five minutes to explain what the process is of like, you know, you give birth, you'll call me X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Exactly. Also, what I found is helpful for some of the people I work with now is reaching out to their friends and like the local mom chats and asking why certain lactation consultants were helpful for different people. Because even just the community where I live, like there's a bunch of lactation consultants, and each one is very different and very, you know, they're gonna be able to help different people, different styles, different personalities, different issues also. Yeah, reach out to the people around you, talk to the people who who came before you and find out what worked, what didn't, and where to go from this.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Yes, I totally agree. Yeah, I totally agree. You don't need to do this alone. So many moms have already done this, so don't do this by yourself. Like let other moms help you.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Yeah, exactly. There's a part of breastfeeding that I feel like is not spoken about enough. It's definitely something that needs to be brought up more. That's about stopping to breastfeed. Um, like I said in the intro of our call, I chose to stop breastfeeding. The first time wasn't really my choice. I was in crazy pain and I had to.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

The second time was my choice, and I was so sad.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

I'm like, I'm still sad. My baby's already, it's been two and a half months since I stopped. Who was your baby when you stopped? The second time was he was 11 months. Great. And well, I think he wasn't amazing.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Yeah. It's it's still a long time. I definitely like need to remind myself often that like give yourself credit for the 11 months. 11 months is a ton.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Again, I never I never will like any way your feeling is valid, that is a really long time.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

It is a long time, but um, I think I'm also like giving myself the previous experience of going until 18 months.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Where it's like, oh, I'm I'm a very big supporter of extended breastfeeding, and like I chose to stop at 11 months.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Kind of like a little bit of a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

I know we're the holidays on ourselves, right? No one's talking about this than us.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Yeah, I I don't know if any other moms feel this way out there that are listening, but there is space to grieve your breastfeeding journey. Whether you were breastfeeding or pumping or you chose not to breastfeed, talk to your friends, get support. Create your village, don't go through it alone. Silence is the worst enemy for your mental health. If that's something that you feel, reach out to me, reach out to your friends, like talk to people. I'm curious if there's like one thing that you could like uh say across the board for every mom that just works for someone who's looking to start their pumping journey or in the middle of their pumping journey and has questions or confusion.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

There's a lot. There's a lot. I know people don't always like to hear this, but the truth is that you aren't supposed to know what you're doing. We are we are brought up to think that this is the most natural thing that is so like your baby's gonna come out and they're gonna latch, and it's gonna be amazing, and it's gonna be so simple. And it's it's you have no idea how to hold this baby, you have no idea how it's supposed to feel. I couldn't even recognize my baby. I couldn't pick out my baby from the from the nursery if I like everyone was like, which one's mine? I couldn't even find it. Um, it knows what I'm saying. I don't even find it, you know, like especially because it was my first time, it was a first-time journey. And I will also say, guys, there's literally zero comparison between my first journey and my fourth. This this one is like, I could pick him out of a billion babies. It's just, it's so different. And like, even like our nursing journey, like, I just knew what I was doing. So, number one, it's not the most natural thing, specifically for a first-time mom. That's why you're supposed to get help. And it does get easier over your journeys if you do get the right support and information to change, to change the outcome. Because of course, if you're going into your second journey and your third journey, but you've done nothing different to learn about how you can make more milk from day one, et cetera, then nothing's going to change. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

That's it's so important. It's so important. Also, I love that you mentioned that we all just think it comes naturally because we do. We think that we just have our baby and start breastfeeding and we don't. It's it almost never happens that way.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

And people need to hear that. It is not. I mean, listen, I guess that's why they say it because for some people it is natural. And I guess they're saying, like, back in the day when, like, you know, I guess it was more natural. I don't even know what happened to babies bad than it, like, you know, it's not so natural. It is natural for some people, but for plenty of them, it's really not. And for most people, it isn't, and that's why we have support.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah, it depends. Back in the day, they had like more of a village, like there was wet nurses and like people who would nurse the babies if the mom couldn't. Um, yeah. No, I don't think I've ever heard of any.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone using a wet nurse because everyone's so grossed up by everything. Not saying that I would let my baby use a wet nurse. Like, not to have a big talker. I don't want to say, but it is, but but I guess that's why, because we're all just like, I'm not gonna let someone else do. I guess like if I don't have a sister, yeah. I guess if I had a sister, maybe I would.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

But I'd rather come from theone to nurse their easier nephew. I don't know. I don't think it's the craziest thing. I don't know if I would do it, but I don't think it's the craziest thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

I don't think it's worth it. I would probably do it. I don't know I don't have a sister, but I probably would do it.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Also, like we're specifically thinking about nursing, but like I've used donor milk in the past. Why is that not the same thing?

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Exactly. Well, I guess people don't feel it's the same thing because it's not on the It's not. It's also I guess it depends on who it is. Like I'm thinking like I don't have a sister, but I'm very close to my mom. I would for sure let my mom nurse my babies. Like, I could still see myself doing that. I mean, thank God we're not pregnant at the same time. But you know, for those of you who are exactly for the people who are okay with that. Yeah, exactly. I think that just knowing that there's so much more out there now, there's so much more community, and allow yourself to find it. Allow yourself, like I have a very not difficult, I don't actually have a difficult time with it, but I always I'm very cautious because, you know, I'm on Instagram, I run a business, I'm selling my course, I'm selling my services, but they're very important services. So I my mission is to try to get across the best that I can that the reason why I'm pushing these services is because they're gonna change your journey. But I have to do that in a way where people don't think they're being sold to all the time because, you know, we're in a very vulnerable state. And you're postpartum and you don't want to be sold to all of them. And everyone's, you're getting all these targeted ads and this, that, like, you know, to get that targeted ad of the bottle full of milk. Like, it's disgusting, and they're a genius. Like it's both at the same time because they know that it's gonna work. So my biggest thing is that like the biggest thing that I was missing during my journey was support. And if I could have invested in the things that I now give back then, I would have had a completely different journey. Like, besides for my course console, like I have a membership where it just is it's a bunch of postpartum pumping and nursing moms. And we get on these Q ⁇ A's and you know, we do them two times a month, and we just we just talk and it's just easy, and it's just you know, like it's just a safe space to be able to just say what's going on, and it's really so special to be able to have that. And when you invest in yourself and you get it what it is that you need to be happy, everyone else is happy. Your husband's happy, we can't at least about him, but like your husband's happy, your baby other kids are happy, your baby's happy, and we do care about your husband. So, like everyone else around you is happy when you are supported. So it's just really important to note that like it is okay to invest in yourself. Whatever you're doing is great, but you don't need to do this alone is really like my biggest message that I like to give.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Yeah, it's it's so important for people to I think just even just remind yourself that like you're not alone. There's so many women out there who are going through it with you and have gone through it before you. And every I don't know any woman who would say no, I don't want to help someone postpartum. I don't know any woman who's like, oh, if someone reached out to me for help, I would say no. Like just reach out.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

You don't need to do this alone.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Tamari, how can our listeners reach out and find you to work with you?

SPEAKER_00 35:18

I would love to. So you can find me on all platforms at one with the pump, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Pinterest, all the stuff at one with the pump. All the things. All the things. I also have a free video library on my website, which has tons of pump reviews. It has videos to manage breast milk, like how to freeze breast milk, how to thaw breast milk, how to travel breast milk, all these things available for free on my website, onewithpump.com. And while you're there, you can also check out, yeah, it's all there. It's free so that you guys can have it. While you're there, you can also check out my course, the ultimate pumping course, which is for both pumping and nursing moms. It is a massive, massive, it's just a huge database of all this information that you're going to need. If you do want to get 20% off that course, you can use the code EveningT. And you can go ahead and grab that. Love it. You can check it out there. If you need a consult or onewithtupump.com, check us out. We are here for you. Reminder that you are not alone. We are here to support you. We we are lucky and privileged to help moms every single day, and we want to continue helping you. So you gotta reach out to us. We can help you out.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Yeah, and wherever you're listening, um, Tamari's links will all be below in the description. So you could find them easily for her website, her Instagram, her socials, for her course. Find it all. Thank you. Okay, this was so nice hanging out with you. Thank you. Yes. As we're wrapping up, I just want to say this. Feeding a baby carries so much more than people preparing for. It can bring connection, it can bring confusion, it can bring bring grief, and all these emotions that we spoke about in this conversation, and none of those mean that you're doing it wrong. If you're listening and anything in this conversation stirred something for you, I hope it felt like recognition and stuff and no pressure. There is never any pressure to make any choices differently or change anything about what you're doing. Um, I hope you feel seen in whatever choices you have made or are still making. You're allowed to trust your body, you're allowed to ask for support, you're allowed to feed the baby feed your baby in a way that lets you show up as the best version of yourself. There is help, but there are people you can reach out to, and you never, ever, ever have to do it alone. Thank you for spending this time with me. If this conversation stays with you, consider sharing it with another mom who might need it too. Until next time, trust your intuition, move gently and take care of yourself. Good night, mamas.