When Everything Goes Off Script: Shira’s Two C-Section Stories

Trigger warning: This episode includes medical coercion, birth trauma, and surgical birth.

In this conversation, my friend Shira shares the two births that shaped her - an overdue induction where she was told she couldn’t leave the hospital, a C-section that left her feeling defeated, and a second birth that unfolded in a completely different emotional landscape. We talk about the pressure she felt, the parts she forgot until saying them out loud, the healing she found the second time around, and how much courage it takes to revisit a birth that didn’t go the way you hoped.

A slow, honest after-bedtime conversation about expectations, shock, recovery, and the ways we process our own stories over time.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Evening Tea, a slow after-bedtime space for women who are exploring motherhood differently. Here we talk about the things you whisper about with your closest friends. The tender, the intuitive, and sometimes controversial, from pregnancy, home birth to postpartum healing, vaccines, natural health, motherhood, parenting, identity, and everything in between. Nothing's off the table here. So pour yourself a cup of tea, take a deep breath, and settle in. I'm Chaya, and this is the conversation that you've been craving. And to be honest, guys, this is one of the first episodes in a very long time where I actually am sitting down with a cup of tea after bedtime. So that's a nice contrast. Cheers. Cheers. Tonight we are sitting down with one of my closest friends. That feels really exciting for me. We're sitting down with my friend Shira and we're talking about her two C-sections. Did you have two emergency C-sections? Or one of them was planned? So we didn't have planned ones at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

But they didn't because they're both but they didn't feel like the first one felt like more of an emergency rather than the second one.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Okay. Like the second one, you kind of had it in the back of your mind.

unknown 1:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Okay, we'll get into it. Yeah. Um, yeah. Thanks, Cher, for joining us. So glad to have you here. This is so fun. Yeah. Let's let's jump right in.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yeah. I remember when we were pregnant the first time. Um, and I say we, because we were pregnant at the same time for like, I don't know, six months maybe. I think we overlapped a little bit. Yeah. Um, I remember like we were talking about like our how our births were gonna go. And I want to hear from you. Tell us during your first pregnancy what you thought your first birth would look like.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

I think we spoke about it a lot when we were both first pregnant. Because like because you came from a background of home births. Yeah. And I definitely did not. So my my goal wasn't a home birth, because that, but my goal was more of like not the natural way, because it's all natural, but I think like the the more like I was doing it in a hospital, but with the midwives that are part of the hospital, I didn't want any interventions, but like I knew that I was in the hospital, so that was probably gonna happen. But like Okay. Yeah, I remember I remember discussing this with you. Yeah. So I really tried to do my research, and all that really went out the window.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

If I'm completely honest.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Anyway, walk us through it slowly. If you're if you're willing to go back there, walk us through what happened. Did you realize during your pregnancy? Did you realize during your labor that you would have to have a c-section?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

So what did that look like? I went in with full confidence that I was walking out without any interventions, no c-section, no epidural, no pitocin, like all of the above. I was gonna walk in there without. And I walked out with seven layers of my skin being cut. So yeah, I think it really was a big, it was a really big mind shift. And like it was defeat. I felt defeated, honestly, like when I left the hospital with my first C-section. My second one, I mean, we named my my second kid Rafael because I just felt like it was a much more healing experience rather than That's beautiful. The first one was really a lot to to handle. But with the first one, I did so much research. And I really think that that kind of hurt me rather than helped me because I went in already having this like agenda and like, yeah, I had a birth plan and I had a doula and I had all of that, but I also didn't fully understand the medical field of birth and what it actually means when you go into a hospital setting, especially because I was so I was way, I mean, I wasn't way overdue. I was overdue in what they call overdue, you know, like I was 42 weeks and four days. Wow. According to them with my second. I think I like I didn't really give them a specific date that I even was like my last menstrual cycle because that was so like my cycle was so messed up that like I was like, I'm not even giving them a date because I don't even know. You know. Right. Like you at that point you couldn't know. Right. And that was for and that I went into I hadn't I actually went into labor, like with my second. My first, I didn't even go into labor. Um I did not know that. Yeah, which is really also like it didn't nothing, my water didn't break.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

I was expecting You didn't have like contractions, like nothing. Like one minute apart, nothing? Nothing.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

And that's why that's why I think it was medical coercion rather than and that's why my first felt very like I felt defeated because everything that I learned or read or even spoke to other people or spoke to more natural people, like like natural homeopathic ways, and like the birthing center rather than the hospital, they're like, you'll know, you'll know. And then I wasn't getting that feeling. So so kiss, we had, I was, I had I had my oldest on Hashanaraba. Um, and when I went in Friday, so like Holamo 8, I went into the hospital from for just a checkup. Um, and it was the overdue ultrasound, um, which is where they get you because you're sitting there and you're like nervous already because you're like in your head, you're overdue and nothing's happening. The baby's moving, like you don't feel anything else that's happening. And they were like, well, um, the baby's heart rate is like it's it's a little bit low. Your water level's also low. Um, and so we have to induce you. And this was like, they wouldn't even let me leave the hospital. That was like the weird, like the crazy part. I went in on Friday and they were like, we can't let you leave. Um, and that was in the ultrasound room. Like I didn't even go to see the doctor or the midwife or anything. Like from that point, they called in their supervisor and they were like, You can't, we're we can't let you leave because it's um, it's the baby's health is is in like the baby's not like the water's very, very low, the heart rate's very, very low, and we can't monitor it if you leave the hospital. And so we don't want you to leave and then come back like a few hours later and say that you can't feel anything, you know. Right. So I had a full panic attack. Like I literally kicked them out of the room from the ultrasound. I was like, I need to call my midwife, who was like on the third floor, but like I still had to call them.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah, like just to speak to someone you trusted even.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Yeah. And I was like, and I also just need time to discuss this with my husband, who's sitting right next to me. They didn't give you any time to be like, here, let me give you a few minutes to talk about it. And you know what's so crazy is I forgot about this part of my labor until like now. Like just talking about it, like that whole process, I forgot about it. Maybe it's a trauma response.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

It is.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

I mean, I literally forgot about it.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

I heard something recently that your body, your brain only lets you remember details that your body's ready to process.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

So talking it through is a form of processing. Right. And you totally might remember more details that you did not remember were there.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

And so I called her. And the problem that I had is that the midwife group at the hospital that I went to um has like, when I had my first, I was like, there were like 10 midwives rotated. With my second, there were 15. So there was like, you never know who you're getting on call. You never know who's coming.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

It's the same in New York. Like, if you're using a midwife group, you don't know who's coming. Yeah. Like, there's no way to know.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah. And like, and the problem is, is like during your appointments, they're like, oh, you'll probably meet everyone, but then every appointment is like with the same midwife. So like I only met three midwives the whole time I was in my pregnancy. And I had a perfect pregnancy. So I thought that everything was gonna go smoothly. Um and I called the midwife. Thank God it was one that that saw me in my pregnancy. Um, and I was like, I'm in the ultrasound room, and they're telling me that I have to get induced. And I'm sure you already hear it because they called, they called them right away. Um, and I was like, it's literally my Sabbath in a few hours. Like, I was like, we're in the middle of a holiday, it's my Sabbath. If you're not gonna let me go home, I need to be able to leave to go home, shower, get myself together, pack up whatever I need, and then I'll come back. And I was like, and I'll come back. Like I'm not, I'm not gonna just run.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

I was like you already told me my baby's heart rate is low. Like I'm coming back.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Like you already scared me enough that I'm going to come back. But I I need the trust factor already. I'm already nervous. I'm freaking out. It's my first kid. I'm 22. 21? How old? I don't even remember how old I was.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

I was 23. So I was 22. 28. Yeah, yeah. Because you gave birth. Yeah. No. I was 21 when I got married. You're 23. I turned 22.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah, I was 23. So yeah, so I was like a little pitcher having a kid, like first time. So she was like, Yeah, you can go home, you could do what you need. We'll like have a room ready. Just when you are ready, just come and meet us at the emergency department, whatever. So I went home, I cried, I showered. I remember it was like, it was very hectic and to no one's fault, I think, because it was a Friday afternoon. And like, it was really hectic because we had no food. And like the hot, it was pay, I mean, succus. We were staying with my in-laws for succus. So I had all my stuff there already packed and everything. Because we were anticipating that I was gonna go into labor. We just had no idea when. So we just made sure we had everything we needed. Um, but like food, like my father-in-law ran to the store and was like, I'll get you things like hala and grape juice. Like, I don't even remember.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Also, you guys don't have like a takeout option. There's no house of glot fully ready food ready to go where you guys are. Right. There is unless kosher food.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Well, there is kosher in our hospital.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Right, but like ew. It's like airplane food. It's disgusting. Like, why do you want to eat the kosher food in the hospital there?

SPEAKER_00 11:57

When I was like, also, like already, I was like in my head, I was like, okay, I'm I'm gonna be eating during this time. Like, I wasn't putting that restriction on myself. And the midwives knew that. Like, I wasn't gonna be like they knew that. So I wasn't gonna like just suffer and eat the food in the hospital. So my mother-in-law like made us a bunch of food, and it was really absolutely it was actually like amazing because I was like, this is really nice. We'll be able to have like a Shabbos, you know. Whether or not I go into labor, we'll have a Shabbos in the hospital. And so my my anticipation was to just go and see what's happening and like to go and let things happen while they monitor you. Yeah. Um, I will say, like, a lot of it is in your head. I think labor, one of like the 90% of it is like in your head. I don't even know that, like, that's not a real percentage. I'm just like literally like, if you're in your head, it will mess you up because it's all your brain is what is going to power you through it. Yeah. And your body needs to be relaxed. Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

To be able to give birth.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Like so we went, we stopped by my parents, we said bye to them. We like had no idea what the timeline was gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Is the hospital close enough to the community that like someone could have walked in on Childvis to find out if you had a baby or something?

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yeah, it's like right here. It's like a it's okay it's like a two-mile walk. Oh, that's not bad.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yeah, yeah, it's not bad. It's like 30 minutes, 40 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Yeah, not bad at all. Like, really close. Like it was a five minute drive.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Which was really nice.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yeah. So we went. Honestly, like we didn't really want anyone coming on Shabbos. Like, I was just like, like, let's just wing it and see what happens. And like Mute Shabbos will announce it, or we'll wait, you know, or we'll just keep having conversations. And then so we get to the hospital, we sign in. Literally, like everything was still like I I still wanted to do my birth plan. And they so like we started off with like my just like re natural induction. So like they had pumps for me, they did all that stuff. I will say my doula was not helpful. Like hard. Like, not really at all. And so that was a like I felt really not supported from her because as a doula, I would think that you would know how to help with an induction process of like the pump and then other things to help move along the process. And she just was not helpful at all with that. That's really annoying. But yeah, and so we started with with the pumping, and they were monitoring the heart rate the whole time, and they kept saying that like with the pumping, the heart rate was really dropping very fast.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

That's so scary.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah, and they checked me, they checked me. I was like not even anything. So I was having Braxton Hicks for weeks.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah, that's normal.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

I'm saying that's not dilating anything. Right. So I went in, I think I was one centimeter dilated, but which is your body's natural state is one centimeter dilated. Right. So I was regular. I was regular, but then I was I was 75% effaced. Which is we right. Okay. We did the pumping for a little bit. I honestly can't remember, like, it was just so hectic. There were so many people coming in, papers, this, like, you know, thank God. It was so quiet that night. Like, it was so quiet. We were one of two women um giving birth. So we had like everyone in our room, which is not helpful. The cavalry.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

The whole cavalry. Yeah. Um, and so I can't even remember like the next steps. It was just us like prepping. It was Shabbos, like, was had come in. So I lit, I did look like, and then Shabbos started. And then like I don't remember anything else after that. Like, all I remember is that the pumping was not working, they kept coming in. I was so tired. I was honestly more numb just because I was just annoyed that like this is where the process was starting.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Um did they try anything else, like the Foley balloon or any other induction methods?

SPEAKER_00 16:39

So interesting. Yeah, they really didn't do a lot. Yeah, they swept memory. My water didn't break. Right. Um I wasn't really having any contractions still. But the heart rate kept going down. So that's really scary. So yeah, so it was a few hours of that. I can't even remember the timeline. Um, because it just felt like forever. But we were there the whole Shabbos, that's what I remember. Then Shabbos came and left. Um still nothing. I think like Shabbos afternoon, they came in and they were like, hey, we've we've been doing this, you know, for a few hours. Like it's been almost 24 hours of trying, and you're still, I think I got to like two centimeters or something. Um, and they're like, we're gonna try Pitocin. And I was like, once I hit Pitocin, I knew that I was like all of my all of my birth plans that I was planning was kind of like out the window. And I know that a lot of people don't feel that way, and that's okay. But for me, I was so set on not having pitocin or epidural that I, the minute that she was like, we're gonna do a peter pitocin, I was like, okay, fine, I'm done. Like, and that was yeah, and that was like the starting point for the defeat. Oh, they gave me pitocin without an epidural. That's crazy. So um, I actually had that with both of my births, but did they tell you why they didn't give you an epidural? I didn't want one yet. Okay. Because I wasn't, I wasn't dilating.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

So I was about to say, I guess because you weren't having like crazy contractions that you needed it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Well, the minute I got betocin, the contractions went actually like I felt like I was dying. And but it went and it went like so fast from like not really having a lot to like crazy pains that I think like after they they checked me every like three hours or something, but they weren't close together either. So like I was just sitting there and then having pain. I was able to sleep, like it was like a weird experience. Um and then they came in and I was at four centimeters and I was 95% effaced. I it sounds a little bit crazy, but after having Rafi and then also like having other things like my IUD put in and things like that, and even things that the the person placing the IUD, she like made a comment about how my cervix is like not even my cervix, like my vaginal canal is like weirdly shaped and my cervix is like, it's like weird. Like it's a weird so like it make so like I even said that after I have like before I have my next kid, I'm gonna get like a full checkup and see like what actually fully to like figure it out. Yeah. See like what's happening and if I will only need or only be able to have C-sections because of the way my body was shaped or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Right. And then at that point, at least you'll know that you could just plan it and know when you're going in. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

I also am gonna change hospitals with the next kid because there's like better hospitals for um that are less baby-making machines and they're more like especially with a with a double C-section, there might be some better options for other hospitals.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah. So I mean, especially if you know that you have to have a C-section anyways. Right, right. Like at that point, you don't need someone who's a good midwife, you need someone who's a good surgeon. Right, exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

That's exactly my thought. Perfect. Like I'm done with them, with the midwives and I.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Like, no, I get that. I totally hear that, especially after the experiences you've had. Yeah. Okay, so they gave you pitocin, your contraction skyrocketed, you were in crazy pain.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

And then they didn't give me an epidural until until I had to go for surgery. So I wasn't, I wasn't dilating, I wasn't moving. So this was all this was like at 8 p.m. Mosey Chavez. So Chavez had just ended. You know, my family was messaging what's happening. We were like, nothing yet. We'll let you know. Literally nothing yet. There wasn't even a process. Yeah. I was four centimeters, like nothing was changing. The baby's heart rate kept dropping. And so they got really nervous, obviously. So they were like sending doctors in and like making sure that I was okay and whatever. And then at 3 a.m. or 2:30, like around that time, um, the midwife came in with the surgeon, and they were like, okay, this is what's happening. We're seeing major, major dips every time. You're not on epidural, but the pitocin is is like really pushing the baby, like, and the heart rate's not coming back. Like when when my contraction would End the heart rate would drop and then it would, it was a very slow incline to come back. But then by the time it would come back, then the next contraction was coming. So they were very scared that like it was gonna happen too often that the baby's heart rate was gonna like drop, go down too fast and not come out fast enough. So we went in. So they did epidural. That was funny. The guy that came in for my first epidural came in with like a giant hat. And I was like, you cannot be here. And he was like, What? Yeah, he was so confused. And I was like, We are Pittsburgh Steelers fans. Like, what are you doing here? Like, you should not be in this hospital room. What are you even doing in Pittsburgh wearing? Like you will get mugged in Pittsburgh wearing that. So it was actually funny. Like that was very lighthearted. And like I really had a lot of fun with the staff. Like, we had a great time, you know. I've had music, like we had a great time. But like that wasn't what we were there for.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

So what we were there for. No, we were not.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

What were you there for, Sheer? Not to have a great time. No. I mean, to get the baby out in a great time. Yes. So yeah. So we had that patarl. It went smoothly. I honestly don't remember anything about it. Like, it went great. Then um we I went in for surgery. That was just a weird experience going in for surgery. Cause like, like, within split second, they're like, okay, let's go. And you're like, okay. So like everything has to come off. All your jewelry, like everything. Glasses. I couldn't even wear my tehol. Actually, like, they took my tehol off and I was like, no, I want to wear it. And then they're like, okay, you could wear it, but you have to wear like the thing over it. Like the cap, the gown thing. Yeah. They had these really cool hospital gown that like velcroed the whole way on both sides. And it was like a, it's just for like labor and stuff, but they were able to take that fully off, which is what they need when you're going for surgery. You're basically laying on the table. But you can't feel anything because you're you had that bedural. So like it just feels very weird. So I went through that process, felt normal. I mean, it was so weird, the whole thing. I and like the one thing that I think back on is like when they brought Alex out to see me, I didn't cry. Like it was the weirdest thing for me. And I think because I was just so numb from the whole experience. And I was like, that is just like I'm defeated, I'm done. I they're just cutting me open, taking this baby out. Like it was just like a really numbing thing. Um and then it led in-cause he was born on Sunday. Yeah, he was born on Sunday, Hashanarabba at like 4 a.m.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Yeah. But then like from then, we we had to stay, we were in the hospital the whole circus. Like the whole some chatar and she needed for us. Yeah. Um, so that was also a very different experience because it was Yuntiv. So like no one actually, like my mom walked in, my sister walked in, which was really nice.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

That's so sweet.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yeah. Um, so yeah, we it was nice, but then like then I had the nursing was just like not happening. And I think that that's like my mental, like I was so mentally shocked from the whole experience that I just wasn't able to relax and like get out of that to be able to properly like he latched right away. And while we were in the hospital, the nursing was fine, but then when we left, it like all came crumbling down. And I think that's also because I was trying to heal as well. My body was like just went through like crazy trauma, you know, being cut over. So I mean, like, yeah, you went through like a major surgery.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah. Did you feel like in the hospital they were helping you nurse? Like they were passing him to you and like getting you through all the steps to nurse, and then you actually nurse, and then they would take in. Or like so they never would take in.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

No, they never, I mean, we kept him with us the whole time. Um I think the other thing is he was such a good sleeper. Like he slept for eight hours while we were in the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

I remember this.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Every eight hours he would wake up. So like there wasn't a lot of there wasn't a lot of like trying, if that makes sense. Like we had the lactation consultant come in like once or twice. And she was the one thing I remember her telling me was like, if you don't want your kid on a passey, don't start now because that's just gonna mess him up. And because of the their nursing situation.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Right. Like if you want him to be nursing well, do not split possi.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah. That's counterintuitive.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Like you are the possibility. Why would you need a pass? Why would you need a why would you need a separate one? Well, I brought sessies because I was like, okay, like we'll try this them out. It just was not, he was not, it was not. Um, I ended up leaving the hospital with a nipple shield, and that's what I used for three months. It was a pain in the butt. Like, honestly, it was a pain in the butt to deal with. I can't like like he was getting so much air.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

You need like eight hands to be able to use a nipple shield.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah. I will say, like, the first week home, you can ask my sister-in-law, because we were living with my in-laws, and my brother-in-law and sister-in-law were in town, and she honestly was amazing. She like helped me, like, she she was staying in the connecting room. So, like at night, if she was, if Gavril was like sleeping, I really didn't want it like to wake him up so much because I was like, I at least need him to be like, you know, sleeping well so that in the morning I can give the baby. Yeah. And we and we had discussed that before we even had the baby, like whether it was gonna be a non-c-section or what. Like, we were like, he needs, like, we'll do him sleeping and I'll do it at night. And then in the morning he'll take the baby and I'll sleep. But even more so with a C-section, like the one thing that I knew in my head was that I needed to rest. And that was just because I had so many people telling me after I had the baby, they kept messaging me, like, just don't push yourself. Like, just relax. Like, don't push yourself, like, don't go crazy. You might feel good. Just don't, because you're gonna regret it. And I took that to heart. Also, like, by the way, I think you were one of the only people who told me that after I gave birth. Me? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Really? That's like I I scrolled it into your head. Yeah. Even though I had a natural birth, I didn't have a C-section. And most of my friends actually did have C-sections at the time. Um, and like you were the only friend who was like, you actually do not move, even if you're feeling like up for it, even if you're feeling good, like you need to take it easy. Yeah. And like you drilled it into my head, like over. I know you would call me and be like, Are you resting? You're supposed to be resting. Go to sleep.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

And it's like 2 p.m. You'd be like, I thought I was gonna take a nap. So take a nap. Don't think about it. Just nap. Like, don't. And like I really took it to heart because I was like, my sister is a doula and in Florida, and I was like, I'm gonna pay you to come. And and it just didn't work out. But like we were like, um, and then my other sister has C-sections. And so she was messaging me, like, rest, take this, these are the remedies that you need. I also prepared, I did, I did prepare myself because I I didn't want to go on the whole, I really stayed away from like recreational meds, like even Tylenol and Idol I wasn't taking pharmaceuticals. We stay away from those two. What?

SPEAKER_01 29:42

We stay away from those two. Yeah. We use Arnica.

unknown 29:46

Arnica.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

And Staphosgeria. Do you know what that means? Staphysagria? Staphogaria. Staphithagria. I think we're saying the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

We are. It's for surgical woods. Are we saying the same thing? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Yeah, Staphysagria. We also used cauliphylum. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

I have it. So Amazon. We love Amazon. The yellow box. Yeah. The yellow box. I have it. Yeah. So I bought that before I even went in for like labor. I bought it because it's good, it has all the things.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Yeah. If you're pregnant now and you're listening, I'm gonna link the yellow box in the description. It's a great yellow box. If you are currently pregnant, you need it. Like, best, best thing I had for post-birth.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Yeah. And and, but you want to know what? I remember having this conversation with my sister. She was like, Are you taking everything that you, you know, all of the stuff? Like, and she meant remedies. Like, oh, okay. She meant me remedies, and I sent her a picture of like my my like stand that I had next to my nursing, and it had like all of the meds that they prescribed me from the hospital and all of my remedies. And so I was just rotating. Balance. Like I was reading balance. Balance. You gotta do both. But yeah, I also did not take oxy. That was like my thing. That like it's very scary. It's very they did. I took it while I was in the hospital because it was just a pump that I was like, I'm just like until they're monitoring you there. Like right.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

You're not overdoing it, you're not overdosing, you're not.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

And I genuinely was listening to my body. I really was. Like, that was also like the one thing. I was like, I'm not. So like I was taking Motrin and Tylenol. And so when I left the the hospital, I I like I had the oxy bottle, but I didn't use it. But I was still rotating on the Tylenol and and Motrin. And then I was also taking all the homeopathic stuff. And I definitely think that that helped heal. It helped me heal faster the first time. And it also helped me heal from my second one as well. Because I already kind of knew what I was doing. So I was like, hey, I have all my remedies for my second one. Amazing. Um, and I knew what to do. Like, I was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

How was it for you like emotionally having a C-section and then like recovering from I guess the grief of not having your birth go the way you planned it?

SPEAKER_00 32:23

It was honestly exhausting. I don't think I went through so much postpartum depression. Like I didn't, I don't think I and it's sad, but I don't think I allowed myself to do that because I was like so mad about it that I was like, there's no point. Like, I'm just gonna like for the next birth, I'm just gonna do even more. Sounds even funnier. But I was genuinely like, I was like, I'm just gonna put my feelings aside about it. We have a healthy baby, my C-section is healing well. Like, okay, I'm I'm nursing this. Yeah, I was like, I really tried. I really tried. He was sleeping amazing. I was sleeping amazing. Like once we went into the house, like things were happening. Like, I really tried to stay away from that, but like I definitely think it took a toll on me because I had the idea of how I wanted it to go, and then it was just exhausting, like to hold on.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Like it was, yeah, for sure. It's exhausting to hold an expectation and it just completely goes haywire.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

And all sure it's exhausting there.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

All of those expectations from that feeling actually came out when I was pregnant with my second, which is really fascinating because I went through Wah How did it show up there? So with my first so I got pregnant when Alex was 11 months old.

unknown 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

We actually I was on birth control for the beginning with Alex. And then I think at like seven months postpartum, I was like not. Also, like with a C-section, like I physically could not move for like a few months. Like I moved, but I couldn't like be so active, which I think also people don't realize that like it's a full surgery. Like you're literally like it's major surgery. It's it's not like an outpatient procedure or anything like that. It's it's full surgery. Surgery. Yeah. That you're like, you have no idea how your body's gonna react because every because also with a second surgery, you're on the same scar. So like there's even more of that. But like with the first one, I really because I was resting so much and I was prioritizing that, I really didn't feel like myself so much. And then on top of that, I had because of the lack of saying. Yeah. And I'm I was very active my whole first pregnancy and my second, and now like I'm just a very, I walk, I I was working out fully when I was pregnant with Alex. So like I literally was like, I was so active that when I wasn't allowed to be that active, it was exhausting for my body. Yeah. And so when I was on the birth control as well, it was just so exhausting because I wasn't doing anything else for my brain to feel good. Yeah. And like birth control does not help with that. No, it just makes it sound. Um and so we I got off of it when I was like seven or eight months postpartum. Um, and we were like, okay, we're gonna wing it. Like we were, we did, we had no problem having another kid right away. Like we were like, okay. They didn't tell you that you had to wait like 18 months before you could get pregnant. Right. So they actually tell you to wait for till the first year.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

So I was like, okay, like if in a few months, like I'm Okay. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

So 11 months. 12 months. It's like, yeah, 11 months, it's fine. Yeah, whatever. You're right there. You're already there. That's fine.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

So wait, so I had I had Ralphie when Alex was 21 months. So I was how Yeah, you were 11. 12 months. No, wait, 12 months. So at his birthday, I was like newly pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

That works. Yeah. So Especially if they told you when you have to wait a year, like you're fine. Yeah. Also, my my scar healed really well. I will say, with scar healing, I think that the medical system is really bad at informing about how to properly heal a scar. I will say that my mother-in-law is a labor and delivery nurse. And so I had no problem asking her to look and help me. And we were living in their house still because of okay. So we moved back in after we had the baby for a little bit, and she really, really helped me. Like, I would have her help me clean it. Like, I was like, can you just help me? Like, I need to see if it's still closed and whatever. And so she was really helpful. And yeah, I just kind of I did my own thing. I just do think that they're not just, they're just not helpful. Like, I have a lot of scar tissue, and I know I do, and I'm having like after effects of it now. Still, after my second C-section, like even after my second, I still didn't get the proper help for it. So that's also something that I'm like looking into now after having two. Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Because it's definitely Like if you have the same experience a second time, like you know that you need to look into it further because they're not gonna help you there.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Yeah, yeah. And like I tried even, like, there's someone I follow who does like massaging for C-section scars, and she teaches you how to do it, but it's all about just like even just like not having the knowledge beforehand, I think also puts a lot of block on the idea of it. Um Does scar tape help at all?

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Scar tape, does that help at all?

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Well, scar tape you're not really supposed to put on for a few weeks.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

No, no, not in the beginning. I'm saying like after it's considered healed.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Well, so mine healed, like fully healed within the first six weeks. Like it was fully closed and everything. I'm just I'm talking more about like the under stuff, like the scar tissue and the buildup and the You're saying like the layers on the inside? Yeah. So like what happens when you get any type of surgery is you get scar tissue right underneath that basically is a protectant for your cut underneath. But there's ways to help maneuver it so it doesn't feel stuck. And it's also like, I think it's like fascia. I don't really know what it is. So I'm not medical, because I'm not a medical person. I don't really know. But like if I would feel my scar today, I would feel like it's tight, like there's things pulling it. Like people also, there's something called transverse uterus can happen when it's pulled. When your you when your it says when your uterus tilts backwards toward the rectum rather than towards the belly. And from a C-section, that can happen because the scar tissue is pulling. So like your body, your uterus can be tilted after a certain section, because it pulls it. Interesting. So they just sew everything together layer by layer, but it just tightens it. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Yeah. It doesn't have the same elasticity as regular skin anymore, for sure. Like that makes so much sense. Okay. So what emotions came up after your You know what? My favorite episodes to record are with friends because we just giggle the whole time and it's fun. That was just such a like so what episode So what emotions were there were present for you during this time? They were present. They were present.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

They were present.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Were they? Okay. What were you feeling about your birth not going anywhere near what you thought it would? And how did that affect you? Um Wait, but I think I answered this already. You said that you saw it, you said that you felt like you saw it affecting you in your pregnancy, but you didn't elaborate. I don't know if you meant not to elaborate.

unknown 40:13

No.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Like it sounded like you were gonna elaborate, but then you didn't.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

No, I th I no, I was going to with Rafi, right? Okay. So I think oh, so with Oh, we got into the whole uh birth control conversation. Yeah. Like I got off of it because I just wasn't feeling myself. And then I got pregnant with Al with Rafi um around Alex's first birthday, which was it was like we knew it was probably gonna happen, but like we were shocked because it took me like a year to get pregnant with Alex from my first miscarriage. So it took us a full year without any like we weren't doing anything to prevent.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Without any birth control. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

So it took us from my body just needed like time to heal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

That's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

So you know I was pregnant at your wedding. With my with the miscarriage. I feel like you told me.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

I was like two months pregnant. I was like not too much. Yes. I didn't know you were pregnant at my wedding. You didn't tell me before. You told me like a couple months later. Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

When I when I had my miscarriage.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

You were yeah, you told me when you had your miscarriage, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Yeah. So so after the miscarriage, we didn't try any preventions because I was like, like, I don't want to put anything, you know, inhibiting.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Are you fine with the miscarriage being in the podcast?

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Yeah. Okay.

unknown 41:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

That's what I can do. Um that also was like a shock. Cause like we weren't expecting either to get pregnant right away. That was also like, I think like when you get married, you have this expectation, and then you're like, oh, but it's not gonna happen, you know? Oh like I might get pregnant right away, but I probably not. Right. And like I already didn't want to take anything because I have like thyroid stuff, and so I just didn't want to like mess with that already. And I also had previous, I was put on birth control in my teenage life for hormonal stuff already. So I like I was off of that. I like was like, I'm not doing anything. So then, you know, I got pregnant, then I had my miscarriage, and then it took us a full year out to get pregnant. No, like about a year and so I had my miscarriage in like January, and then I got pregnant like the next year I found out I was pregnant. So, okay, so second time around, right? So yada yada, I came home from my first kid. I nursed for three months because it was with the nipple shield. I ended up stopping after three months. I just part of you for going three months, especially with the nipple shield. Yeah, it was really hard. I pumped a lot, I did a lot of pumping, but I also am not a high milk supplier and I know that. So I was just exhausted. Like it was all the time. And so I kind of just was like done after three months. And so I did formula. So then everything was fine after that. Um, and then with my second, I was like, okay, I'm going in with a different mindset. I'm not going in with a I'm not going to have a C-section. I would love to have a V back, but I'm not going into it saying I'm never gonna do because I did that with the first, and I was so defeated that I literally was just mad at the whole situation. And I was like, I don't want to feel like that every time I have a baby. Like my dream as a mom is to become a mom. So why am I gonna be mad at how that happens, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

It's actually such a good point. Like such a good line. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

No, like we're we're so obsessed with like the details of exactly How like our birth plan, and yes, birth plans are important. I think they're very important. I will be the biggest advocate for a birth plan. But like if your health or your baby's health is uh in jeopardy in any way, your birth plan is just a piece of paper with some words on it.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Like Right Right. And unless you're and it's all about you can have as many things as you want on your birth plan, but if your mindset is not there, then what's the point?

unknown 44:26

Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Because all you're doing is sitting in front of a doctor or whoever and being like, This is my birth plan. And they're like, Well, what did you do to help with that birth plan? And you're like, nothing. I did absolutely nothing. Like you can't be mad at the system for not doing something. You know? I yeah. So going in, I I found someone in our community who she's amazing at what she does. I worked with her with Rafi, but I I was friends with her. Like I'm she saw me my whole postpartum experience, and she definitely was giving me tips and things to help with nursing and things like that. She actually came to my house the week after Alex was born. I was, I had a full meltdown um trying to get him to nurse. And it was just, I was like crying. It was like, I think I came home. It was like Motze Yantiv, actually. It wasn't even a work. It wasn't even a week. It was like three days. And she came and she sat with me and like she let me feel how I was feeling about it. And I I fully like, she's I just was very comfortable around her.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

And so I knew the one who you sent me like her um her information. No, she has like a printout. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Screenshot or whatever about um about resting. Yeah, you sent it to me and you were like, print this and put it next to your bed. And every time you want to get out of out of your bed, you have to read it all. And I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Because I really I felt I felt that she actually helped me with that stuff. That's okay. And like I just kept her memory. So she's actually a home birth midwife, and she is right now. She's a midwife. She's a home birth midwife, yes. But she right now is becoming she's in school for something else, also. Okay. I think she's in school for nurse midwifery.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Oh, like to be a certified nurse midwife. Yes. Amazing. So that's her goal. Okay. So she's like a lay midwife.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

That's so cool. I've never actually seen that lay midwife.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

But she only does, she couldn't take me on as a patient in that regard because she doesn't work in the hospitals. She couldn't work in a hospital if she's not certified. Well, now. I mean, she's in school for it right now.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

No, I'm saying then, like legally, she can't work in a hospital. Right. Legally, she can't. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

So she's a doula also.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Could she have worked with you in that capacity as your doula? But she wasn't taking any hospital patients.

unknown 46:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

And she like, and and I spoke to her about it. And she was like, if I was taking hospital patients, I would have had you, you know. And so, which I understood. So, like, there was no hard feelings for that. And I knew that with my second pregnancy, I was gonna go straight to her. So, like the minute I found out I was pregnant, I messaged her and I was like, I would love you to help me just go through my past experience and like help give me the power, because I need my power back because I just feel defeated, um, to go into my next birth. And so we started like pretty early on. I think I went to like I I had a lot of sessions with her. It was more about like the behind the scenes aspect of like why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling with birth and labor. I let out a lot of emotions from what I was having with Rafi. There was a lot of stuff that I held on to. And so I felt good. Like I felt good going in with Rafi's.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

When you say good, you mean like confident that you were having a V back?

SPEAKER_00 47:48

I I went in with the idea that I could have a V back. Okay. I did not have any mindset that I was not going to have a C-section again because I didn't want to put that pressure on myself. But I was lowering your expectations. Yeah, I I lowered that that expectation and I had the expectation that like I could have a V back. But if Hashem puts me in the direction of having a C-section again, then I'm just gonna I I have to be open to that. Um I did what I can. And I I literally did what I could. I went to her, I did therapy, like I really, I really did what I could. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. And then I will say the one thing that like was in my head a lot was um there was one specific midwife who I disliked from even from my first pregnancy. Um, and I saw her a couple times, and every time I saw her, she would mention the idea that they would try to help me have a V back. But it's not so possible at all. Like she was very negative about it. Um and so every time every time I felt left that appointment, anytime I saw her, I really tried to not schedule my appointments with her because I was just like, I would ask every time I made an appointment, I was like, please tell me she's not there. Like I was like, I don't want her there that day. Yeah. Um now the day I went into labor, I had a doula. I was living with my in-laws, my water broke in the middle of the day. And it was the first time I experienced that. So that was also new for me. And so I went through the whole process. My contractions were like pretty good. Um, I actually had Honoluluba come over to check me with I think yeah, and she was like, It's you're still really like you're still really not anything. She was like, so you should just stay home as long as possible. Right. If that's what your goal is to prevent anything else from happening, you should stay home. So I really tried. I had my doula there, I was in the shower a lot. It just I was in so much pain.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Yeah, the contractions do that too.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Yeah, it was but I don't know why, but I think they were like bad. Like I don't and it wasn't like I was holding on to it, and I don't know if everybody's contractions are different feeling, you know. I have a very high pain threshold, so I was shocked at how painful they were. And even my doula was like, your contractions are like very strong. Like, like even more she was like, for sure are something's happening down there. Like they're very, very strong.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

I I remember that, like for me when baby wasn't in exactly the right position, the contractions were stronger when they were moving into the right position.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

So I wonder if Rafi was maybe like tilted or like his head was like up instead of down, and like those contractions were helping him move into the right position. Yeah, like it was painful as hell, especially if he was flipped sunny side up and like you were having back labor. Like that's I don't know if I was.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

I wonder if you could ask them. I can't remember. Wait, okay, I mixed up my two births, just backstory for a second, backtrack. I got to six centimeters with Alex. Okay. Okay. And 100% effaced. So they cut me short, and that's why I was so mad. Because they cut me short because he kept dropping his heart rate that they they like kind of refused for me to go ahead to continue. So they were like, we need to stop. Like this, we can't go any further. So and my contraction and my doula was not helpful. That was with my first burn. So I was already, I had all the the problem. I was just like mad at the whole thing. Because I could have. You were already upset. Like, yeah, I was already upset. And when they pulled Alex out, full cone head, full, full cone head. Like he was already descending. Full, yeah, full cone head. Like I can't, the pictures, he doesn't have a forehead. Like literally, like poop, like full cone head. Anyway, then with Rafi, I tried staying home for as long as possible. It would, these contractions were just so bad that I went to the hospital. I called my midwife. My water broke. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna go. Because I was like, my water broke, my contractions are are really bad. I've been here for 12 hours at home. Like I literally was home for 12 hours, like just dealing with like laboring. Yeah. And I was like, okay, I can't go any longer. Um, so I went to the hospital. How we keep doing this shit, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

How do we keep having kids knowing our experiences? Like, because we forgot what we No, no, no. We do you you forgot how it felt to go to have those contractions? Yeah. Really? Yeah. I don't I remember every single detail of all my contractions. It was terrible.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

I really don't feel I I don't know why. I just don't feel the pain anymore. I don't feel it. Like, I'm like, I just I know that my body was contractioning and there was pain, but I don't remember the feeling.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Like your body doesn't remember the feeling. Yeah, but think about it. Like when you stub your toe, do you remember how it felt to stub your toe? You know, no, you just remember what it like you just remember experience experiencing pain. Right. Like your body doesn't hold on to it. Right. But like we remember that it was painful and we just choose to keep doing it again and again.

SPEAKER_02 53:36

I know.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

What the hell's wrong with us we're psychopaths?

SPEAKER_02 53:41

We just love having children. I can't. That was a joke. Okay. So what else?

SPEAKER_00 53:57

So I went to the hospital, went into the normal rhythm of things. Like, got to the hospital. I wanted to labor without any interventions. I was already contraction, contracting, so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna hang out. The midwife was unbelievable. Okay, unbelievable. I went in, she was like, I'm not even pushing. She was like, usually we push because your water broke, and so usually we give 25 24 hours. She was like, I'm not even gonna you they basically have a limit, like after 24 hours. Oh, great. Well, she so this midwife said, usually it's 24 hours, but she was like, everything's looking clean and like clear, and there's like I'm not even gonna worry. Like, this is what she said.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Right. Like, I remember when my water broke with Rose, I'm um I'm almost positive the clock that my midwife originally gave me was like 48 hours. But then the only reason why my clock was lowered to 24 hours was because I had mecodium in my water and it's like an aspiration risk. So, like that part I understand 24 hours, but regular water breaking, I don't know why I remember it being much longer.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

So maybe in a hospital setting, it's different. Yeah, of course. Yeah, because they don't want their risk of infection. Yeah. So like they were like after 24 hours, and then she was like, You're fine, you're fine. The problem is, is that with these midwives, they're always leaving because their shift is over. So she left. And the one thing I remember saying to both my mother-in-law and my mother before I went to the hospital, it was just fascinating how my brain knew. And I looked at them and I said, if that midwife that I know that I don't like, that doesn't appreciate, that won't support me in this idea of me not having another c-section. If she walks into that room, I'm having a c-section. And guess who walked into that room? She did. And so I looked at Gabriel and I was like, we're done. It's like the fact that I'm even like even still pushing for a V-back, there's no point because she will just force it. So there was a lot of like back and forth with my doula. And like with the midwives, it's very hard because you can't really ask for another one because there's no other one. There's no one else available. Right. And because I wasn't a part of the OBGYN office, it's not like I could ask for an Obigay because I was like, you know. So I kind of just I tried as much as I could. I didn't get Pitocin right away, but she came in and she was like, heart rate, heart rate. And I was like, mm-mm. I was like annoyed with her. I got Pitocin without an epidural. And I only made it to four centimeters with Rafi. So with Alex, I made it to six. With Rafi, I only made it to four. And I was 75% efface by the end of it. Like I wasn't even with my water breaking and everything, um, I still was lower than what I was with with Alex when I gave birth to Alex. So but with Alex, I didn't even, my water didn't even break. So like I didn't even and then I got, I had all of that stuff happen. So with Rafi, I was expecting that when my water broke, that I would already be, you know, getting to a especially with how bad my contractions were. I was like, yeah, for sure, I'm like at six already. Like I was literally sitting there. So they put me on Pitocin without an epidural because I wanted to be able to move around as much as I could. Um, and though that's when it went like crazy. I was like exhausted because I was already up for so long. Yeah. And then they came in every like few hours and checked me and nothing changed. And I was just in so much pain and I was exhausted and I had a migraine. I was just like a mess. So I was like, just give me the epidural. I was like, give me the epidural, and I'll sit in a comfortable position enough to try to help bring the baby down more. But this was all my choice. Like with Alex's, I didn't feel like I had the choice to make, but this I was very vocal the entire time about what I was doing. Yeah, 100%. And like, and I and I felt that. And Gavriles. Like he was like, You're really doing a lot more than you did the first birth. Like, like standing up.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

You don't know to, like, you don't know how to.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

Yeah. And I and I felt that. And I think that really was like with doing all that therapy with Hanaluba and just like talking about my past birth, that I really was able to find my voice in this birth, which really helped me. Um, and so this is a funny story. I got an epidural. Also, it's July, okay? July is when everyone's new in the hospitals. Like all the graduates are coming in. So you're getting residence, you're getting, yeah. So I had someone who was new to come in for do my epidural. And now I knew what an epidural felt like because I had one previously, and I was, and it was so easy that I was like expecting it to be easy. And she comes in and I'm sitting and I'm having painful contractions, and you have to sit so still, you cannot move. I'm literally like squeezing Gabriel's hands, my Medula's hands, like I'm just in pain. And she's like, it's not working. I'm not getting it where I need to go. So I look at her and I'm like, I need you to get someone else. I was like, it's not about you. I just can't sit any longer. Like, I need you to get someone that can come in and do it in a split second. Like, I can't. And so this is the funny part. So she called in her supervisor, Haya. He walks in as a man. And I look at the nurses and we go, holy, he was really hot. Iconic. And he was, and he walks over and he's like, I could do it, and he did it. And all the nurses, we looked at each other and they were like, Yeah, we know. We know. We work with him, we know. It was such a funny experience. Like, it was like, because it was all women around me, and then this one dude like comes in. And a super hot doctor comes in. Yeah, it was really funny. I was like, we were cracking up. That's hilarious. Yeah, that's so good. Anyway, they get that bedroll in. I meet the surgeon. I don't even know. I think she was my surgeon from last time because it was a woman. I don't remember, honestly. The process was a lot longer than I remember than than with Alex's because it was a lot of new people, also. So there were like a lot of new things going on. My anesthesiologist was unbelievable. Like he was like, he was like, I had a Gavril, and then like my doula was there taking pictures, but he was like there being like, we're almost done. Like he was telling me everything that had to like that was going on in front because like Gavril wasn't looking and the doula was kind of like out to lunch taking photos. But he was like, I kept telling when I went in, I said, I really like to know what's going on. So like just tell me. And I don't care. You could tell me, I'm my my my belly's open. Like, I don't care. I just want to know for myself. And yeah, it was a great experience. It was much better. I mean, there was it was a lot, it was longer, but I they when they pulled him out, the first thing I said, the first thing I said was like, Oh my god, he looks like my sister. Because he does. He looks like Hani, which is so weird for me. Really? That's he looked like Hani, like the minute. So he still actually see it. He still looks like Hani. Yeah, it's cute. So cute. Yeah. So it was much better. I got pictures, which I don't have of I have a few from Alex, but not so many. But yeah, it was a much better experience. Yeah. And I, and I like the minute he was born, and like we went back to the room, and I looked at Gavril, and I was like, Rafael. Like, we have to figure out a name with that. Cause I was like, I just felt so much better. And my my whole mindset was different. And I fully nursed him until he was a year old. Like my brain, it was just a different experience, the whole thing. And yeah, it was just a beautiful. And I think like your mindset really makes a difference.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

I mean, I did have like some problems with my scar. Like I we were living on the third floor of my in-laws' house. So like I was walking up and down stairs a lot, which is a no-no.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

And so that definitely if you didn't have a c-section, that's a huge no-no. Like right. So it's a no across the board. Like you should not be doing anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

Yeah. Yeah. And because it was a repeated C-section, there were like I actually went home the same day. Which I think that's kind of cool. I went home. Yeah, I went home. I had I went in the hospital Wednesday night and I left Friday morning. And the and he was born like I don't remember Thursday morning. Like like it was within 24 hours I left, which with the C-section, they want to keep you for more than we keep you for two days. All right. But they were really happy with my progress, so I was able to leave early. Great. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:51

That's awesome. No, your mindset literally shapes like the experience that you're gonna have. It's so your mindset is so powerful. By the way, in the like in my like course, um, one of the things that we like heavily focus on is shifting your mindset. And I think that it's been so helpful for like a lot of my clients that I work with that we start during the last trimester because that mindset work and like the identity work is being done in that course. And yes, my focus is for postpartum, but I think a lot of it affects them in their births as well. And like having the tools to be able to shift your mindset when things are going hard or not the way that you expected them to, is like some of my clients have literally told me that it was like game changing for them to be able to like have the tools and have the words in their head to like pull back to and be like, I'm safe, my baby's safe, like things like that. Um, it's so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

Yeah. I also like just like a side point, like I think I also had the the on the side, I was like, Alex, like in the my whole time, I was like Alex. We did this with Alex, like, you know, and he's doing well. Like I wasn't worried, like right, bark with him. Yeah, yeah. So I definitely had the of like, I just want to bring home a safe, healthy baby. And if that means that I'm gonna have the same experience, then I'm gonna have the same experience. But it but your experience changes with your mindset, so it could be the same exact thing, but if your mindset is in a different space, it's a totally different experience. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:36

Because your brain is wired in a different way. A hundred percent. It's so I saw it in in my second birth when I was giving birth to Ari. I saw it so clearly. Like her I was in Okay, I uh was in we're starting before that. 32 weeks, I thought I was going into labor. I remember that. I went to the hospital.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

I was legit having contractions three minutes apart at 32 weeks. I was in full panic mode, and my midwife is not allowed to come with me to the hospital because I was planning home birth. And I was just there with Nahi, and they're like, Okay, so we're gonna do a cervical track, we'll see like whatever, how far you are. And they check, and like I'm at like a one. They're like, okay, we're gonna come back in three hours and check if there's any movement. Um, you know, if the contractions stop or get less painful, let us know. An hour later, the contractions stop completely. And they're like, Well, we have to keep you here for another two hours to finish the cervical check because it has to have a starting and an ending point. And I was like, shit, like I'm literally sitting, I'm laying in a hospital doing jack shit. Like staring at the ceiling. It was I didn't I didn't even eat dinner. I was so hungry. And there was like no kosher food around, like, I couldn't even Uber Eats anything, like, no Uber Eats is coming to like buff nowhere where this Hospital was. Not that it was in the middle of nowhere. It was literally like Presbyterian. But still. And like I remember when they let me go home, I was like so relieved. And like from that moment for the rest of my pregnancy, like my very consistent theme for my second pregnancy was that I had a very miserable pregnancy because I was in shock from finding out I was pregnant. Like I didn't want, I was not prepared to be pregnant again. And it was a miserable pregnant pregnancy. And from that 32-week point where I thought I was going into labor way too early till the end. Yes, I was still physically miserable, but mentally and emotionally, I was like, thank God I'm still pregnant. Like every day I would wake up and be like, thank you, Hashem, that I'm still pregnant until like 38 weeks. Then I was like, okay, I don't mind now. Like, please get this child out of me.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:46

When you called me, I remember when you called me and I was like, girl, you gotta hydrate. And you were like, Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

Yeah, no, no, no. It was a hydration issue. By the way, guys, I'm leaving that part in. So whoever's listening, drink your damn water because if you don't, you'll think you're in labor at 32 weeks because I was severely dehydrated.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

Yeah. And um, yeah, they literally like major contractions. Like when you're dehydrated, your body is already depleted. So imagine like being pregnant and then being dehydrated. Your baby's already like eating everything from you. That if you're not you're not hydrating.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:22

They were shocked because they gave me liquid IV, like uh, whatever, I don't know what's called. The IV with the saline. Um, and I think my body took in at least a full liter, which is like one bag, right? I guess. At least a full liter before I had to go to the bathroom. So completed. Bare minimum, a full liter before I needed the bathroom because my body, like, I did not drink water. And like I knew you had to stay hydrated, but I didn't, I guess I didn't realize how much I hadn't drank that day. But no, literally the rest of my pregnancy, I my mindset was like, thank you, Hoshan, that I'm still pregnant up until like 38 weeks. And then by like 39 plus three is when I gave birth to Ari. But another thing about mindset there was that I went into false labor on December 31st in the evening, and I started panicking because my midwife was upstate with her family for New Year's Eve and for New Year's for the holidays. And I texted her and I was like, hey, I think I'm in. I think this is it. And she was like, Okay, here's the backup midwife. I'm on my way to the city. I'm getting in my car now and I'll be there in three hours. And if you are literally like pushing a baby out within that time that I'm not there yet, call the backup midwife and she'll be there. And I was like, okay. Long story short, my contractions continued for the next five hours, meaning she got to the city, got to my apartment, and only two hours later did they stop completely. It was the weirdest thing ever. I was so like, I was so mad. Like, no, I'm done. I need this baby out of me. Like, I'm done with this pregnancy. I was so upset. And I ended up going for reflexology, and this is where the mindset piece comes in. That the first thing I said when I walked into the reflexologist, Claya Strasbourg, she's incredible. She's local incarnate, like she's an eastwap. She's amazing. I walked in and she was like, Why are you here? And I was like, I don't want to be pregnant anymore. And I didn't realize at the time, like as I said that, I was just like, I just I'm done with this pregnancy. Like, get like I just need to give birth. And when she was doing like her practice and like doing the actual reflexology, she was like, I'm just bringing to awareness to the way that you like to what you said when you walked in. You said, I don't want to be pregnant anymore. You didn't say I want to give birth, I want to go into labor, like whatever. You said I don't want to be pregnant anymore. Can you tell me more about that? And basically, like I just broke down, like crying. I was like, I can't, like, this pregnancy has been so miserable. And like, I just I can't be pregnant anymore. I'm so excited to meet this child, so excited to meet the baby, and I just can't be pregnant anymore. And I don't remember exactly what she had said to me, but I remember when I was actually in labor. And like I got to this point in my contractions where in hindsight, I now know that I was obviously in transition, where it's like much more painful than everything until that point. And at the time I didn't realize that I was in transition yet. And I literally looked at my mom and I was like, I just want to go to the hospital. Like, I can't do this anymore. I need this baby out. Like, I can't, I can't keep being pregnant. Like, I was also worried that the contractions were just gonna stop again because it had already done that. Like that whole week, from December 31st, when I went into false labor until January 10th, when I actually gave birth, I was having false labor the whole time, up until Thursday night, which is the night before I gave birth.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:06

Which is when it turned into real labor. And I didn't know it was real labor because I had been experiencing false labor the whole time. And I was like, just take me to the hospital and like get this baby out, get me an epizural. I don't want to feel the pain anymore. I don't wanna, I'm done. And my mom was like, like, she didn't know what to do, she didn't know what to say, because like to her, she's watching her child be in like crazy pain. She's like, Yeah, obviously get my child out of this pain. And my midwife came in and she was like, Hey, remember we planned a home birth? You're safe, your baby's safe, everyone's fine. Is there a reason you want to go to the hospital and get an epidural? And I just I remember I started crying and I was like, I can't, like, I'm in so much pain. I'm done with this pregnancy. I had to see the baby out, and like I can't, like, the contractions are just gonna stop again. Like, I can't do that. Like, I just I need it out. And she was like, okay, what if we start like filling the tub? And I was like, Oh, okay. Like, yeah, that's a good idea. Let's fill the tub. Like, and I just like became very calm because the tub was like my actual favorite part of both of my births, like just sitting in the tub, even though neither neither of my births ended up ended up being water births. But like just that time that I got to sit in the tub and like labor in the tub was so nice that during that like hour that I was waiting for the tub to be filled, I just started talking to myself like out loud and saying positive affirmations. And I literally remember being like, I could do this. I'm strong. I'm brave. Like, not just your mindset changing, because like your mindset changing could be like an internal, quiet, whatever, but hearing it out loud. And like, yeah, it's coming from my own voice. So it's my choice to say those things out loud, but just hearing it, like I am brave, I am strong, my body can do anything I put my mind towards. Me and my baby will work together to get the baby out. Like, we got this. I'm almost there. Yeah. I mean, I didn't say that because I genuinely did not believe it at that point, but even though I gave birth two hours later, um, like just hearing those affirmations out loud, even in my own voice, was so like shifting for me that like it literally changed the course of the rest of my birth. How like I was fine. I was like, oh, I don't need the hospital, I'm fine. Like, I just needed to talk to myself out loud, like a crazy person. Like, I'm good. Um, but yeah, your mindset is really powerful. And like it's so it's so important how like you saw what your mindset was with your birth with Alex, with your like labor with Alex, and that you were able to like work through that during your pregnancy and kind of like like create a positive outcome for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:49

Yeah. Yeah. And like and I also feel impressed. It's amazing. I also think like just a message to everyone that like really from the outside, like when you're pregnant, there's so much noise. Everybody has an opinion about it, everybody has something else. And I think that really, like, you just as much as you say it doesn't affect your mindset, it really does. And I saw that with my first, that with my second, I just I genuinely was like, I'm not even listening to anybody. Like, I'm like, I remember someone, like a couple people would be like, yeah, like do this and do this. And I was like, I'm not doing any of it. I'm I'm either not doing it or I have to do it myself without any voices. Because I was like, the first time I had everyone's voice in my head, and I came out feeling defeated and like exhausted and tired and not wanting to I like emotionless for the first kid that I was like, I can't do that again to myself. Like I just need to be present. And so I really think that like there's a lot of voices that you just have to remember that like this is your journey. Having a baby is your journey. And however it happens, it happens. And if that's the way that you planned it happens it that way, then that's amazing. And if not, you still had a baby. And like it's hard, it's hard. And the whole all the hardest.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:12

It's hard to hold that. It's very hard to hold that. Like, no one's diminishing how hard it is to be able to hold that. But at the end of the day, like, I think everyone could agree that like healthy mom, healthy baby is the ultimate priority. And it is unfortunate that sometimes our plans don't go as we wanted them to. Yeah. And thank God we have medical interventions like C-sections to make sure that our moms and our babies are healthy at the end. Cause like this is like a hard thing to think about. That like we don't know what could have happened if you continued laboring naturally. Right. Like if if if you know, if by your first labor, your his heart rate his heart rate was already dropping.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:01

Maybe that was the exact moment that they needed to pull you into a C-section, even though for you it did feel like it was coerced, but like there's just no way to know what could have happened if you waited even a couple minutes longer.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:14

Right. And that's where I think like the defeat came from. That I was like, this is I could have done it. I could have, I could have, I could've. That I was like, like when it came down to Ralphie, and I was like, hey, I did everything else. I did the therapy for it. I did the other research. I changed my mindset. I did all of that. And yet we're still back at the point of me needing a C-section that I was like, okay, like the I'm just going to let it happen because I didn't, I couldn't, I couldn't put that on myself again. I couldn't not enjoy the part of having a baby that I wanted to enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:55

I think a lot of it also comes down to like betahin. Yeah. And like being able to say, like with full sincerity, that like Hashem is in charge and like he has a plan for every single birth and every single mom and every single baby. And our plans go to shit sometimes. And whatever, like it could be really hard to sit with the knowledge that your life is blowing up, but there's a plan you don't know about. And like I say that about like anything, like about trauma, about like, you know, you could apply it to any aspect in life. It's not just about birth, but like a tahhein is a huge, huge part of our lives that like we really need to create that trust in ourselves. And we need to create trust in Hashem within ourselves to be able to be okay with the outcomes of situations we didn't necessarily expect or want.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:56

Well, we did want it. We we came out with the want of the baby.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:01

That of course, that of course. I was thinking like you didn't want a c-section. It wasn't talking about the baby, Shira. Talk about the C-section. But I don't know if you heard this on the previous episode that I did with Hani Smaller, Hani Lubavanko. Basically, I recently learned this very interesting thing about C-section, and I wonder if you'll appreciate it. Basically, there's seven layers that the doctor needs to cut through to get to your baby to take the baby out, and then you need to be stitched back up seven layers. I had learned about it before I heard it, but then when I heard it, it kind of like reminded me that I learned about it. And basically, she was saying how um anishema has to go through seven realms to come into this world. And there's I don't remember all of the details of like the seven like checkpoints of birth, like of natural birth.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:52

Like the seven, I think there's like the seven what?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:56

Like transitions that happen. Maybe I don't remember.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:00

Something like that. But like there's seven checkpoints that somewhat correspond spiritually to the Nishema being able to descend into this world. And it was like we were able to correlate that to a C-section where you're not having those seven checkpoints because you're not pushing the baby out anymore. But the baby is still going through seven layers, which correspond to the seven realms of the Nishema coming down.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:27

So how cool. Yeah. Yeah. Party party. Party party. All right. Anything you want to leave our listeners with before we close?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:41

I think I think it I think our whole chat was just about our mindset. And I think that's the biggest thing. That like the biggest thing. When your mindset is in a certain way or is so stuck, it's very hard to be able to appreciate the steps that you go through to get to the end goal.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:00

Yeah. I also just want to add to that before before we wrap up that it's very easy to look back and see my mindset was super negative then and I changed it and now it's positive. It's very easy to say that was wrong, this is right. That's fine. But I think the hard part that we all can work on and can all learn from is that even when things are hard, like when you're going through it and when you're in that negative mindset, being able to recognize that that mindset is prevalent. And like hold it, like being held over you, even like self-imposed, yeah. Is it's a really powerful like tool to have to be able to notice that, like, hey, I'm stuck here and I will figure out a way out. And it's okay that I'm stuck here for a minute, but you can't let yourself be a victim to staying stuck. Um yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:05

That's great. Thank you so much for coming on evening too. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for sharing your story.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:17

I appreciate having a voice. I'm so honored that you chose to come on and share with us. Thank you for spending this time with us. If this conversation has stayed with you, consider sharing it with another mom who might need to hear it too. Until next time, trust your intuition, move gently, and take care of yourself. Good night, mamas. And I mean that this time because it's actually nighttime and I'm gonna go to bed.