When You Become the 1%: C-section Stories with Shaina Glick

This is a quiet, personal conversation about being the 1% - the outcome you don’t expect, don’t plan for, and hope won’t be yours.

Shaina shares her experience moving through an unexpected C-section, a postpartum infection that became life-threatening, and a second birth where everything pointed toward one outcome… until it didn’t.

We talk about what it feels like to try so hard for a certain kind of birth, to carry the voices of what it “should” look like, and to slowly come to terms with a body and a story that unfolds differently.

There’s no fixing or reframing here, just sitting with what happened, and holding it together.

If this meets you in any way, I hope it feels like a little bit of company.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

A quick disclaimer before we settle in, I want to mention that tonight's conversation touches on some heavier parts of birth and postpartum, including medical complications and moments that might feel intense to hear. My request for you is to just take care of yourself as you listen, go slowly, pause if you need to, or come back at another time. Thank you for being here, and I hope you enjoy this episode. Welcome to Easing Tea, a slow after-bedtime space for women who are exploring motherhood differently. Here we talk about the things you whisper about with your closest friends. The tender, the intuitive, and the sometimes controversial. From pregnancy to home birth to postpartum healing, vaccines, natural health, motherhood, parenting, identity, and everything in between. Nothing is off the table here. Pour yourself a cup of tea, take a deep breath, and settle in. I'm Chaya, and this is the conversation that you've been craving. Tonight feels like one of those conversations that I wanted to make sure was said out loud. Not because it's an easy conversation, but because it feels very important. There are so many people walking around with birth stories that went differently differently than they hoped or differently than they prepared for. And it can feel very isolating and lonely to be holding that and walking around carrying that. And I want to make sure that anyone listening that is carrying a birth story that feels different than what they expected or hoped feels held and feels supported because your birth story is important no matter what you went through. And the expectations we carry, the pressures that we feel sometimes, and the way that we hear people talking about things that might feel familiar, um, aren't always talked about so openly. Tonight I'm sitting down with someone who has lived through a really layered, really intense journey. We're sitting with Shayna Click. Shayna is a writer, she's a relationship coach, and she's someone who has navigated unexpected C-sections, um, a uterine rupture, and a lot of fear and uncertainty in her birth. And she was very graciously willing to sit down with us and share her experience. Shayna, I'm really grateful that you're here and joining us. And whoever is listening tonight, I hope that this can be like you're sitting with us and enjoying the conversation. If it feels relevant, I hope it feels like a hug. And if not, I hope this brings awareness to the vast experiences that many people have. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us, Jayna.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Thank you. And thank you for bringing this topic to your podcast. It's such an important topic. And um I know it would have been so helpful for me to hear a podcast about it. So I'm hoping that this lands with somebody that needs to hear it and brings awareness to the rest of us who hopefully have our dream births.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

And um yeah, happy to be here. Um I'm really glad that you're sharing this because yeah, I agree. It's so important for people to start talking about and sharing all of these experiences. I would love for you to share so that we can kind of get to know you a little bit and um just kind of understand the space that you were operating from during your first pregnancy, what you expected your birth to look like, and where this journey kind of started for you. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Yeah, so my first pregnancy, um I was I I would say I had like, you know, probably an like pretty typical amount of fear about birth and you know, but also excitement. I wouldn't say my fear was like overwhelming, but uh I wanted to have a natural birth. I wanted to feel like I could do it naturally. I also um come from a family that's more natural-minded. Like my mother had 13 or almost 13 children without an epidural, and the last two she had an epidural. So I definitely planned to do a natural birth. Um, I actually signed up to a hypnobirthing class as my birthing classes so that I could prepare myself. And I really enjoyed the classes and the whole approach. So I really expected to have a natural birth. I would say that I also had a fear of c-sections. I definitely didn't want to have a c-section and was gonna do everything to avoid that. I wouldn't say like I felt like I would have a c-section, like it really felt like totally not something that would happen to me. But with hypnobirthing, also you they prepare you with like uh one of the mantras. It's been so long, so I can't really fully remember it, but one of the mantras is like basically embracing the unexpected. So if something unexpected happens, I take it in stride and I like I take the next steps based on whatever, you know, whatever comes up. So um so that one turned out to be very helpful for me. So I went into um, I went into labor and right off the bat, I was like, wow, this is not what I was expecting. Like these hypnobirthing mantras are not taking care of the pain. Um and I um kind of like the hypnobirthing kind of went a little bit out the window because I was so I I felt like I didn't have the tools to deal with the contractions. Um, that was my personal experience. I know I have friends and I know so many people love hypnobirthing and swear by it and um and feel like it really does help them get through and and experience a really painless birth. So my doula actually was very helpful and gave me, you know, on the spot guidance on like how to how to work through the contractions. So actually before things were going south, um, I was just, you know, birth is never perfectly planned like as planned. So I was just going along with it. Um I had I was in labor for over 12 hours and finally seemed like things were getting like time to go to the hospital. So my doula came with us to the hospital. Um, but as soon as I like came down to the car, she was like, You don't look like you're ready to go to the hospital. Like, why are you smiling? So, and and the contractions did actually slow down when I was getting into the car. Um, but at that point we were ready in the car. It was right before Yampta, uh right before succus. So we we decided to just go to the hospital and see what's going on. And after over 12 hours of labor, I was not dilated at all. Um, like they could see on the monitor that the contractions were strong, but for some reason it was not having an effect on my body. So so we decided to try to like see if we could stop the contractions and see if we could um if if it could restart and be more effective. So I didn't know that there's such a thing as stopping labor. To me, I was like, I think this is happening, like I don't think this is gonna stop. The doula had said to take like Tylenol PM and try to go to sleep and see. Anyway, so we headed back and in the car on the way back, this is where um I realized that things like this was not so typical. My doula, who was, you know, one of the reasons why I chose her was because she was like very also natural-minded and I felt like she's very strong, and she'll help me advocate to like not have a c-section if I don't have to. And she told me in the car on the way back, like, I don't think this baby's being born naturally. So I was like, what? Like, what do you mean? Like, how would the baby be born? She's like, well, there's only one other way. Like, she thinks she thought it was gonna be a c-section.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Did I tell you why she thought that?

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yeah, so she said, because based on how the labor was going and the amount of progress, like from her many years of experience, she thought like she didn't think, she didn't see it. She didn't think that the it would end up progressing properly. So I I was a little upset at her for kind of like putting that in my head. Like, I'm like, let me at least try. Like, why why are you like in hindsight? Like in the end, I was happy that she was preparing me, but yeah, but that couldn't have been hard stuck here in that moment. Yeah, no, I was it was devastating, really, really devastating. And also like it didn't feel like that was for sure the case to me. Like, I didn't feel like we were at that point. I know she said the only like she thinks that if we could get this labor to stop, then maybe, you know, we could restart and things will well be different. So so that's what you know, I headed home with with that goal and tried to to go to sleep. But pretty soon after my water broke and there was meconium, so we didn't really have the option to try to wait it out anymore. So we went back to the hospital and so her recommendation at that point was to go straight for an epidural and see if that could help things um progress better. So again, like all of this was totally not to my plan. And I thought, like, well, an epidural could like make me head in the direction of a C-section, so I really didn't want to do that. So we tried a little bit longer without an epidural, but there was still no progress after a few hours. We're gonna try Pitocin and an epidural. But to make a long story short, with Pitocin for many hours, I don't remember how many, there was still no progress, and we waited it out as long as possible. Um, and then when the baby's heart rate was was starting to get iffy, we ended up heading for a c-section. So during that time, I was kind of like asking all my questions about a c-section. And my main focus was like, does this mean that like the next one is gonna have to be a c-section? I was really, like, really determined to not always have c-sections, um, which was like, I think a big part of the conversation. Like people like don't, you don't want to have an unnecessary c-section because then, you know, you might have to, like some people just have unnecessary c-sections. That was like a big uh thing I I heard a lot around me.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

So um Also I think like coming from you said like a more natural-minded background. I know for me coming from a similar background, if I was having an emergency C-section, my first thought would be, would I ever be able to give birth naturally again? Like, or even for in your case, if ever. Like that's definitely like a a scary thought when that's a priority for you for sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah, yeah. So that was definitely on my mind. My doula said, like, well, we won't know like what's the reason for the slow progress until the baby's born, and then we could see like what what's going on. So we headed towards this for the C-section. It was not a great experience, the actual C-section. Felt like I like lost my like I couldn't figure out how to talk at a certain point. Like my doula was trying to keep me awake um and asking me questions, and I was like, I don't know how to find my voice. Like I couldn't figure out how to, you know, whatever. Eventually I was able to talk, but it was definitely like a disturbing, like not enjoyable experience. Um but I would say that the hypno breathing definitely helped me um in my resilience going through this process. So like just to not fall apart and and like you know, make things even harder. Um, to basically like um just take it like like okay, this is how it's it's meant to be, and I could I could still do this. Um so after the C-section, I I felt really encouraged actually because Medula said like the the baby had the cord wrapped around his neck twice. So she felt that that was the reason for the slow progress. Like basically the baby couldn't descend because every time the baby tried descending, the cord got tighter around his neck. So um, so it was actually like a miracle that we were able to have a C-section and he's was bracham healthy. And she felt like this shouldn't necessarily have to happen again. Like it was circumstantial, so um, it had to do with the baby, not with my body, basically. That was her her assessment. Anyway, the recovery was really, really challenging. I was in a lot of pain and couldn't I couldn't like figure out how you're supposed to take care of a baby and when you're in so much pain. Um, and it was a baby boy, so we had a shalmzahar and a bris, and it was just like, I just remember feeling so like um like why is this a thing that we have like a shalmzahar and like right after you have a baby? I I felt kind of um a little angry about it. Um I can imagine. Yeah. Well, actually during that week before we even got to the bris, so it was all on succas, so the timing was also challenging. Yeah, wow. Yeah, so so we went straight into Yemtif. Well, it was on Yemtif. We came home probably after Yemtif. Can't remember. Anyway, um, like on Halmide, I don't remember exactly. But a coup like two days after I came home, I had fever. I got fevers. Um, we didn't really know that was probably part of why I was feeling like so miserable. But we didn't really know why I was having fever. Called my doula. She thought, oh, maybe you have like a breast infection or something. She was very concerned that I should have to go back to the hospital, but we kind of did need to check it out. Some other people that were around were saying, like, oh, it's probably like the aftershock of the birth that you're having fever. I really was not prepared to know that like fever after a birth and especially C-section is really bad news. It could be an emergency. So um I ended up calling my midwives and they insisted that I should head back to the hospital. So the whole time it was kind of it was a little hard to figure out like where do you advocate for yourself and where do you listen? Like, where do you like follow, you know, the medical advice that you're getting. So um at first we were kind of like like pushing not to have to go to the hospital, but um my my midwife was like really insistent that I should go to the hospital. So we ended up going, and it turned out that I had a wound infection um at the scar of the C-section. And that and that was pretty bad. So um first of all, that was another why why didn't they tell me that I should look out for a fever? Like I've nobody told me that before. I feel like that's pretty basic with with the C-section.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Um pretty good to know if that's something you should expect.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah. Um, so the the cure for the wound infection was to basically reopen the wound a little bit every single day and clean out the infection, which had to be done by like a medical professional. They they had an option, officially they had an option of nurses coming to you to do it, which would be really nice, but that didn't end up working out. Like they didn't have they couldn't arrange it in time. They had they had they gave me a doctor that I could go to outside of the hospital, uh, but I had to travel like must have been at least a half an hour each way, every single day in that first week. So this is like before the bris, even. So then we finally got to the bris and things were looking a little bit better. I was feeling better, I wasn't having fever anymore. And, you know, slowly started my recovery from there. So it was definitely like a rough recovery. And I remember thinking, like, I am gonna make sure that I never have to do this again. Like this was brutal and and just really hard, especially with a newborn and such. I remember thinking the whole time, like, I can't wait till this part is over. Like, I just want to enjoy my baby. I just wanna adjust to motherhood. Why am I dealing with like being so sick and having such a difficult recovery? So yeah, so eventually I I did recover and enjoyed my baby. The next couple of months after that, I was having some very strange symptoms. I was waking up drenched in sweat. So I went to the doctor and the doctor that I saw, she told me, like, oh, it's very typical for nursing. Like it's probably from breastfeeding. Like, what did I know? Like, I was like, okay, but I really want this to stop. And I also really want to continue breastfeeding. So, like, what do I do? She's like, Oh, it's probably just like the first few months. Um, so that that wasn't stopping. Um, that kept happening. And I also had some other strange symptoms, like a pain in my leg every so often. Um, and I thought maybe it's from like like putting my foot on the pedal of a stroller, like you know, when you let out the stroller like in park, like the break. So I thought like maybe I'm like pulling a muscle or something when I'm doing that. That's what it kind of felt like. But it kept happening, and I was like, okay, like I really need this to stop. So I need to figure out like what's happening here. Went back to her like once or twice and we did some other tests, but like nothing, everything seemed fine. Anyway, a couple of months later, so my baby was born Sucus. So when we got to Pisa, I was starting to get like more concerned. I was feeling very weak and dizzy, and um, I was like, something's wrong. So I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go to another doctor at that practice, and like if he's not gonna be able to help me, then I'm gonna go to like Barbara Park or somewhere else and try to find like a really good doctor. Like, like like there's something going on and I need to figure out what it is. So I went back to to a different doctor at that practice, and he was very concerned right away. He said like he realized that I had like a low-grade fever that was unexplained, and I also had lost a lot of weight during those months, like also unexplained. Um, so he wanted me to right away get a CAT scan or an MRI, I don't remember which was. Um, anyway, they right away saw that something was concerning. There was like something in my spleen that might have been an indicator about something else. So they sent me to the hospital like right after PESA, and there they did like a whole bunch of tests until they realized that I had uh endocarditis, which is an infection in the heart. And they didn't know like what that could be caused by because it's very rare, especially in young people. Um, it's usually something that you they find in like drug addicts or people using needles that are like not clean. So they kept like asking me all these, you know, questions like do you did you have a past? Like what could this be from? It was like very baffling to them that that I had this. The conclusion they came to in the end is that very likely the infection came from my C-section wound, that there was like a little bit of bacteria that was left there, microscopic, like not something that anyone did anything wrong, you know, but that it's the kind of bacteria that travels to the heart, and and it was the same bacteria that was in the infection, in the wound infection. So, like thankfully we took care of that. It was very, very, very, it was a very dangerous infection. Like it could be fatal if not taken care of, but it was actually pretty easy to treat. It was just like IV antibiotics. Like once you for six weeks I had IV antibiotics, and and then that was mostly behind me, except that I was left with some damage to my heart. So nothing, nothing extreme, but something that that we have to watch and yeah, bar Hashem and um and something that like I'm always have to watch and take care of. So after that, I kind of felt like I am never having a c-section again. Like this is one of the risks of a C-section, which is very rare, but it is, you know, one of the one of the risks.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

And um these other things that followed it that you were dealing with, it kind of feels like it's because of the C-section. Like if you didn't have a C-section, you wouldn't have had the wound infection or the endocarditis.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Exactly. Exactly. So it's really a lot to process. Like I also had a very small baby, right? Like six-month-old baby. So I think I only realized like the the intensity of it and like the like wow, like that happened to me. Like I only realized that more like later on, because it was like just kind of okay, at least I'm feeling better now, you know, right? So um, yeah, so that was my first birth. And kind of where I was after that, like really determined to have uh a natural birth when I was pregnant with my second. The first thing I did, like when I was literally just a few weeks, you know, right after I found out that I was pregnant, I reached out to my dulakin and I um wanted to use her. I felt like she knew what happened last time. She felt like I had a good chance of having a natural birth this time, and I liked her. I wanted to use her again. So, like right away, I reached out. And um, the whole time, like I my goal from the beginning was like, how do we set this up for success? Like, like I'm having a natural birth, that is my top priority. And she told me, well, the top priority is a healthy mommy and a healthy baby. That's that's the top priority. So, well, like having a natural birth was a pretty close second. Um that was, and you know, the from the beginning I was discussing with my midwives, went back to the same midwives and was really like like I kind of made it very clear to everyone, like, this is what I want. Do you like what do you think? Is there anything like how do we prevent what happened last time? If there's any way to prevent it. There are so many natural things out there or people that will like um will like tell you that what they do will ensure uh a be back. And I'm sure many of them are very helpful and very possibly very successful for for people. But it's it was kind of exhausting. Like, like, how do you know when when you could stop? Like when you did enough, right? So there was this lady who could make sure that the umbilical cord doesn't get wrapped around your baby's neck, like she could do movements or somehow she had some imaging that could tell if the if the if the cord is around baby's neck. There was, I don't even remember the names of all the different things I tried. Yeah, just so many different things. Um and at a certain point I was like, okay, like I have to believe that I did my part, you know, like I can't. I can't like just keep going.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

What was showing up for you emotionally when you were going through all of that? I know that you really wanted to have a V back and you did all of, you know, as much as you possibly could to try to have that. How was that on your mental health, on your emotional health?

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah. So it started off like just, you know, things I want to do to prepare for birth. Over time, the doula was kind of sounding a little more discouraged. Like she didn't feel um, and I couldn't figure out why. Like why all of a sudden is she like not feeling like was she kind of um thinking that I might not be able to have a V back? Like she was saying, we don't know. It could be something else. Like we don't actually know until you have like a proven pelvis. That's what they call it. We don't know if like what's what's the reason for the for the no progress. So that got me very anxious. And that's what really had me like trying everything, everything that I could do. A lot of exercise during my pregnancy and you know, visiting all these like natural practitioners. Um and it was very stressful for me, I would say at that point. I like I cried a lot, kind of like kind of almost like processing the fact that I might have another C-section. Like even the thought that I might have another C-section was like really, really upsetting. But I kind of felt like like I need to prepare myself for both options. Like I didn't want to feel like I'm like not even thinking that it will be a C-section, and then I'll be I'll end up back there and like that will be so hard to process. Like I felt like I had to, I had to be okay with the unknown, right? Like Hashem is in charge, only Hashem knows like what can what will happen. And at the same time, do everything possible and be so determined to have a V back. It was like kind of like holding both at the same time. So there were there was probably like a good month or two where I was like really, really overwhelmed and stressed by it. Um and towards the end, I kind of came to a little bit more of an acceptance of like Hashem is in charge and whatever happens, I will be okay. And and you know, I'm gonna do everything possible to have a V back, but also I will be okay if I end up having a C-section. At 30 weeks, my midwives told me that if I'm a week overdue, then I will have to have an automatic C-section. And this is like, I was talking to them about it almost every single week, like that I really wanted a V back and how do we make sure, you know, whatever. So I was like a little bit like, like, why are you throwing this on me now? You know? And I was overdue with my first, so I I was like, this is like a very real possibility that I'll be a week overdue. So I decided to look for another practice that I could switch to. So that would give me better options for um, if I'm overdue, like better options than just automatic C-section. So I ended up finding um a really amazing practice, actually the same practice that Hanalea used. She's the one that recommended them to me.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Love it.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Yeah. So um, and I used the same, like her favorite doctor, shout out to Dr. Shalansky. She's the one that was like, I I ended up seeing and I like wanted, I really wanted to, I basically just wanted to see her because I knew she was like the most um the most encouraging about a VBAC. Um, and she's just lovely. So that's who so that's who I saw. I mean, it was really just like five weeks from the time that I switched over until um the end, but they were willing to give me better options of VBAC. Um, they said you don't have to have an automatic C-section after a week. Like we'll see depending on what your body's doing. And they did have some induction options that they were willing to try. But they were also very realistic about the fact that it is possible that I will need to have a C-section.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

It's important to make sure that they're, you know, make telling you all the available possibilities. Yeah. Like that's the only way you can really prepare yourself for what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Exactly. And I and I did want to make sure that I was like following medical advice that like I I I knew about a uterine rupture and I did have it like in the back of my mind that like I don't want like I want to make sure that that this baby's safe and that I could continue to have more kids after this birth. And that's what I found at that practice that they were really responsible and safe, but they were also willing to try different options within within that. So I felt really good about the care that I was in. But I also really was had this, you know, a huge fear of having another C-section and I was just trying to grapple with that. So that's where I was heading into the birth. We had like a very thought-out plan of what we were going to try. We were gonna try, we were hoping that I would go into labor naturally, and then that would give me like the best chance at like progressing, and then we had options of like we can use the balloon to help things progress, or Pitocin. And like obviously, like within a certain amount of time, they didn't want me to be in labor for more than a certain amount of hours because they were also very cognizant of not having another infection after the C-section. So that was also something that made me feel a lot better that they they were keeping like the full picture in mind and I like hopefully would not end up with another infection. So that was that was basically the plan, like certain amount of hours that that I would be in labor for before they would talk about, you know, other options, like heading towards a c-section. And they would also, I would also need to do it like right off the bat with an epidural so that um in case of emergency c-section, like we would be set up for that. Um so again, like it wasn't, it wasn't my ideal, but it felt like the safest option. So the whole time I'm kind of like balancing these two like very important things, like to to advocate for myself and set myself up for success with the right team and with the right options, but also being safe. Some people, like depends where you're coming from, but will tell you like, of course you could have a V back and don't listen to this doctor, and don't listen if they tell you that, because you know, you could um like someone might have thought, like, don't start off with an epidural right away. That's setting you up for a C-section. Or or um, you know, I'm saying like everyone can have a lot of opinions, but when it actually comes to your life and your baby's life, like it's a kind of important to to to know what's right for you and to kind of and to figure that out.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

And it could be hard to figure out, especially when so to look at your full medical background, like if if it's so important for you to have a V back, you can go look at your first birth and see, you know, where could I have what could I have done differently? Obviously, not wishing to go back and redo it, because I don't think that's healthy. But just, you know, what could have been done differently to help you achieve your goal? Yeah. Um I'm curious what you were feeling, or I guess what your thought process was when you realized that your body was steering away from that V back.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

I wanted to be thinking that I'm having a V back because otherwise, like, how am I gonna go through a whole labor knowing I might end up with a C-section? I really wanted to like my mindset to be like, like I'm doing everything possible to have another V back. So yeah, that's how we went into it. Um, I ended up having to get induced because I had symptoms of cholestasis. So that was like a wrench in the plan. For anyone listening, just explain what cholestasis is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So cholestasis, um, I happen to have known about it like super randomly. Like I saw a post on Instagram or something about it. Um, but it's when like towards the end of pregnancy, when you start to feel itchy all over. Um, and it could be very dangerous for the baby or for the mother. So um that's how I knew to call up and ask like medical advice.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Um and my I just want to clarify for anyone that is listening, choliestasis is like Shana said, itchiness all over the body. This is like severe itchiness all over the body, not like regular, you know, like your belly's itching because it's stretched out. That's normal. But if you're like severely itching all over, definitely worth reaching out to your medical professional to discuss.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Yes. Yes. Um, so I so we're trying to figure out like, is this polyestasis or not? Like, is it likely polystasis? And and it's actually a test to to test and see what it is. It takes a few days. And towards the end of pregnancy, the later on in pregnancy that it it occurs, it's more dangerous. So let's say if it was at like um 35 weeks or something, I might have had more time to figure out what it is. And if it is important to get induced, but um being already at 40 weeks, it was important to get induced right away. So um, so that's what that's what we did. Um it was like, okay, like this is not, this was not like our best chances, right? Like this is not plan A, but there was still a lot, like a good chance that things could work out. Um, so I came to the doctor I came to the hospital, and it happens to be that um Dr. Shlansky was on call, the doc my like the doctor that I wanted. So that was like like helped me feel like, okay, like we could still do this. This is not like we're not just like heading into a C section. And that was very encouraging. And we we started with the balloon and things were progressing. Like I actually was dilated to F4, which was like so like blowing my mind, like I could not believe that that my body could do that and it was working, and it was really encouraged. I felt like like this this could really happen.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Um also been so relieving knowing that, you know, by your first one you didn't dilate at all to now you're getting you're getting somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um after my first birth of like not dilating at all, like I maybe like like it was kind of like a a wonder to me that like everybody else's body works normally, you know. Like to hear that someone went into labor and they had uh uh like things progressed and they gave birth was like, wow, like how did that happen for you, you know? Um so so yeah, this was like like it was really um really exciting and really such a relief. Things were going well. Um, after a four, they have to remove it. Like it doesn't really help for past past that. And then they did like um they gave me Petocin to help things progress. Part of the plan that we had was that I would not be on Petocin for too long because that could raise the risk of uh of a rupture, a uterine rupture. So we were kind of counting on like progress continuing to happen. But after a couple of hours, things did not progress from from a four. Um, so it wasn't looking that great. And that's when, you know, I was feeling like a little bit more like, okay, maybe this is not gonna happen, right? Like it doesn't, like it didn't, um, but I was still really like like giving it to Hashem and hoping like at any moment things could change, like this could still and and you know the doctor kept saying, like, if you want, we could head into a C section now, or we could still continue to try. And she really gave me that time to like, as long as the baby was safe, like we could continue to try. And so yeah, that was like so, so healing and so nice to be like to feel like like my wishes are being respected and also that you have the autonomy to make the decision.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Exactly. It's no one's rushing you into a C-section. They're letting you kind of take your time with it and obviously within the realm of your baby staying safe. Yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah. So after a couple of more hours, I don't remember the the full timeline. This is going back five years, things were still not progressing. And the longer that things were not progressing, the more likely it was that we were going to end up having a c-section. But as long until it was like an emergency, she was willing to let us continue trying. But but also saying, like, okay, it looks like we're getting closer to the time that we would have to choose, you know, have to decide to to get a c-section. All of a sudden, like out of nowhere, I got like an intense, intense pain that's hard to describe and was totally different than the contractions. It didn't feel like a contraction at all. So and also I was on an epidural, so I wasn't really supposed to be feeling anything. So right away called in the doctor. Um, everything looked fine on the monitor, so as long as the baby looked fine, like they didn't feel like there was any emergency happening. They're like, okay, look, we could up the dose of the of the epidural. Upping the dose of the epidural just made my like my legs more numb, but it didn't change anything about the pain. So, and it was very overwhelming. Like I could not even like speak or think or like anything. I don't know how many minutes passed because it's just all like a little bit of a blur. But at a certain point, the doctor said, like, I do want to head for a c-section now, otherwise the baby looks fine. Like, we could wait it out a little bit longer, it's up to you. Um, so first I said, like, no, I don't want to choose a c-section if I don't have to. Like, we'll still wait it out and see. I tried, you know, breathing and doing whatever, whatever I could to like work through the pain. But after a little longer, again, I don't know like how many minutes or or hours, I said, like, you know what, it feels like we're just waiting for an emergency. Like, it feels like the C-section is gonna happen, anyways. And this pain is so intense, like, maybe let's just head for the C-section now.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

So what was that like noticing um that it felt like waiting for the inevitable?

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, yeah, it was it was a slow realization and also like choosing to let go of of um holding out hope, right? Like you can hold out hope until an emergency comes, and probably if I wasn't in pain, I might have done that. Um, but because it was so so intense and it was like, okay, like I don't know if this is so worth it to hold out when probably anyways it's going to be a c-section. And it was extremely, extremely um it felt like defeat. Like I felt like I was defeated. All these months I put in so much effort and sweat and tears and money and trying to figure out how to have the V back and like, and we're back here and we need to have a C-section. Oh, it was very hard, but at the same time I also felt like happy that I felt good that I was able to try. I did feel like we gave it a fair shot, and and that felt really, really nice to know like like I I did my part, I tried.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

It's important.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Yeah, and as my doula had told me like all those months earlier, like I want you to feel like no stone was left unturned. Like you tried everything, and um, and I really felt like that. Like I felt like I tried the best that I possibly could, and this is just what Hashem wants for some reason. So we headed for a C-section. The C-section was a much better experience this time, like the actual C-section. I I felt totally fine. I was just chatting with my husband while while they were doing the C-section, and and a few seconds or minutes in, my doctor says, like, oh, thank you for thank you for agreeing to the C-section earlier, because actually there's a uterine rupture, like you had a uterine rupture and and like the baby's okay, everything's everything's fine.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Your uterus just ruptured, but everything's fine.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Like, well, basically, like the scar reopened. So um basically she just didn't have to cut through. It made her job a little easier. She didn't have to cut through the the tissue.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Silverlining, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Yeah. So it was like I remember thinking, uh, I I think I asked in that moment, like, can I have more kids? Like, imagine, like you're on the operating table, they're in the middle of your C section, and you're asking like a big question like that, you know, can I still have more kids? And and she said, Yeah, like it was not, it was not a complicated rupture. Ruptures could be much more complicated than that. Um, could actually be fatal for for the mother and the baby. So it was kind of miraculous that we did the C-section at the moment that we did. Um, and like it's really a matter of seconds from from the moment that a uterus ruptures when to when everything is in danger. So we really can't explain how from the time that I felt that pain, which I'm pretty sure is when when my uterus ruptured, until the time of the C-section that and that everything still was such a good outcome.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Um Wow. Hosh, I'm really like guided you exactly where you needed to be there. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Really, yeah. I actually had a dollar from the Rabba with me that was given to my friend's mother um when sh after she had a very like risky birth and it was a was a dollar for her next birth that should be like safe and healthy. So I thought like this dollar was going to give me my V back that in the end it gave me a healthy baby and that I was healthy, perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Healthy mom, wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah, so that was like again, like too much to process in the moment at the same time, like also processing in the moment. I remember thinking like, who cares that I had a C-section? Like the baby's alive and and I'm alive and I could have more kids. Like, that's so much more important to me than having a V back. All these months, the V back felt like so big and so important also for my future family, being able to have more kids and not being limited by C-sections. But here it's like, like, my uterus could have ruptured and then I could have not been able to carry another baby. Like that, that that was like a very real thing that could have happened in an attempt to have a feedback. So in that moment, kind of like all of the anxiety about having another c-section and all of the like grieving that I was kind of doing during my pregnancy, like being open to the fact that I might have another c-section, was just like it just felt like it's okay. Like it's okay, it's really okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yeah. How did you, I guess, like make sense of it, of the fact that your uterine rupt your uterus ruptured and like what that meant for your future of pregnancy and birth. Yeah. And what did that mean for for future pregnancies?

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Yeah, so I believe I knew this before before I gave birth, but like was part of like how they were preparing me. That basically, like, if somebody does have a rupture, it could be a complicated rupture, which which would mean that they cannot have any more kids, if hopefully they make it out alive and healthy. Or it could be more of a simple rupture, which is where where the scar reopens, but nothing else gets damaged. And then you can continue to have kids, but you would have to give birth at 37 weeks. Like they wouldn't let you go past 37 weeks because they don't want you to be in labor, because the contractions itself could re could cause another rupture. So um, so basically they want to make sure that you don't go into labor and but it would be automatic C-section. So no more VBACs. And letting go of the option for VBACs was actually such a huge relief because it felt like it really felt like my body can't do this, but nobody knows for sure. So you have to try and I want to try, but it was so exhausting trying, and still still I didn't I didn't I wasn't able to accomplish that. So it was like in a way it was like it was it was a relief that the choice, the option was taken away from me. Um and I didn't I didn't have to make that decision. So um yeah, it actually felt like quite quite a relief.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

I can't imagine the kind of relief that is to like be able to even like surrender that, like surrender your body to you know, like losing that hope of the V back. Did I know like we were talking a lot about how Hashem guides every birth and every experience and now you see how Hashem guided you to choose to have a C-section even though it might have been considered earlier than necessary, um and you saw that you needed a C-section because of the because your uterus ruptured. Did going through all of that impact your relationship with Hashem? How did that um how did that kind of affect you?

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Yeah, so I I think it just really became clear to me that like as much as we need to do our part in birth, um, and we should be educating ourselves and advocating for ourselves and making sure that we we know our options and are setting ourselves up for success. At the same time, ultimately Hashem is in charge, and Hashem is the one that is deciding how your birth is going to go. On the one hand, we do have we do have the the power to set ourselves up uh for for success and be with the right people and have the right tools. Um at the same time, it's not all in our control, which is something that uh I think we all know in theory and it's you know part of the basics of what we how we are raised, but to to really to really know that in like a very real way is is is powerful. And I feel is a little missing from the conversation around birth. I I am Barfashem like way past this this journey. And to me, like I'm just grateful to be able to have children and have had another baby after that with a scheduled C-section. So so this is not something that that I experienced so much personally, but I definitely feel is the experience of a lot of people and and I've definitely been there where people kind of judge you for having a C-section or or feel like you didn't know better or it was a mistake. Like if you had a C-section, it was a mistake. Something went wrong. Either you had a bad doctor who's just scissor happy and and and just wants to make more money or you were not resilient enough and didn't weren't able to handle birth, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Like these are it's such a terrible terrible mindset for anyone to have like Hashem created medical intervention to be an intervention. Like it's there because it's necessary for some situations. And yeah I've definitely like heard that narrative before. Even just the last few C-section episodes that I've done with evening tea like it's such a common and consistent theme that you know people hear from the people the society around them that like, oh something must have been like not right. You know, I mean well obviously if something wasn't right that's why you were having the c-section, especially if it's an emergency C-section. But so often it's kind of almost as if people are quick to place blame. Right. Like it's your fault for having a C-section and I think we really like as a society and as a community we really need to take a step back and normalize two things. I think tell me your thoughts. Like the first one being that if someone is sharing that they had a C-section and they're sharing that it was an emergency and it wasn't necessarily their plan, we need to be able to hold space for the experience they went through where their literal plan that they were working towards for nine months was overturned. And the second part of that that I think is important um is even for someone who chose to have a C-section, like why are we making that a bad thing? Why are we like if someone like we don't we don't know what other people's experiences are. We don't know someone's history, someone's medical history, someone's trauma history. Like there could be so many reasons why someone could be choosing to have a C-section and even just you know in your story like you know that your your kids after that Uterine rupture were all going to be C-sections and that's that's a perfect example of we don't know what other people have gone through. It's not our place to judge how someone's deciding to give birth.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Right. Yeah and of course there are situations where you know a C-section didn't have to happen and and someone might recognize that themselves, right? Like that's something um that that that's definitely like something that is important to know about and prepare yourself for but it's not always the case and I feel like that awareness is missing. Like I myself when I hear that someone had a C-section like my first reaction is like I like I feel bad. Like why did why did that have to happen to them? I know it's not fun and it's hard and and I like I want them to be able to have their natural birth um but it doesn't mean that that they did something wrong or that their doctor did something wrong. Right. It's not necessarily the case sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

And I think that's the piece that so many people are missing that like for you when you hear that someone's having a C-section your first reaction is you're approaching it from a place of like I went through that I I know that it wasn't your fault. I know that it wasn't necessarily your doctor's fault that you have to do that. Whereas I I think the the as like as a community and as a society and as women we really need to be able to hear someone else's experience and just let them share their feelings around it. And if someone comes and says you know I had a c-section and it wasn't planned it was an emergency c section that my body needed that you know me or my baby wouldn't necessarily be healthy if I didn't have it like that's not that's not a sad C-section. That's Bar Hashem we have access to these tools to come out with a ha a healthy mom and a healthy baby on the other side. And I I feel like I hear so like I I might be repeating myself over and over now but I hear it so often that like people are like oh she had a c-section and I'm like why are we like why are we sad? Why are we like giving pity to that? Whatever happened in her birth that is where it led her and she is healthy. Her baby is healthy yes it's so hard to recover from a c-section. Bar Hashem I do not know what that's like but I have seen it and heard it from so many people and let's be there to support her. Let's be there to support her healing from her c-section. She just went through a literal huge traumatic invasive surgery. Like let's let's be there for them instead of just like casting pity of a whatever like she you know she didn't know better. I think I just repeated myself four times in different ways.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Yeah yeah it's so important yeah and I I also want to recognize that like people are usually coming from a good place. Like they want you to like they want you to know that they're I still have people you know um that will tell me like are you sure that you have to have another C-section like maybe maybe you could find another doctor you know and maybe some people would make make that choice for themselves but but in my experience I wouldn't like that's not safe for me. Yeah and I prefer to be alive than have a V back. Yeah exactly like that just really made it really clear to me like in in a split second you know like like like yes like yes I understand why everybody wants a V back and I really really wanted that but when it comes down to like life or death or being able to to be able to give birth again and carry a baby again like like that's like not I can't compare that you know like the and of course like a I just want to say like a uterine rupture is very rare. I made a joke like uh I think right after my uterine rupture is like all the 1% chances happened to me you know like I had the infection after after C-section. That's also pretty rare. It's not so common. That led to endocarditis which is extremely rare and then I had the uterine rupture you know gosh not to like not to put any like fear on anybody like this usually does not happen. But this is like the 1% chance of the 1% chance. Right but we do protect ourselves from those 1% chances you know so it's really something to to keep in mind. You know I remember during the pregnancy um they they kept talking about this this possibility of a uterine rupture and I was like like stop talking about it already like why are they driving me so crazy? Everybody has a V back like it's not like they're making it that like this is like such a big choice that I'm making. But but the reality is that it is something to keep in mind. It is something to to know that it's a very real thing that could happen although very very rare for sure um after you know after all of those experiences where you literally went through the 1% chance what did your healing journey look like physically emotionally mentally spiritually well rounded healing journey yeah so the recovery from from the uterine rupture slash c section was pretty much like any other c-section like literally the rupture was was just the the just the the scar. So that would have been reopened anyways but the weight of what happened was definitely something to process. I would say I'm very grateful that what was coming up for me was really just a a huge gratitude to be alive and have a healthy baby after what happened and and kind of like uh almost like a validity to like no one could argue with this, you know, like this no one could say that the C-section was not necessary, you know? So there was a little bit of like a vindication with that like what I was experiencing for so long that other people might not understand, like no one could misunderstand this, you know? And yeah, I would say like a lot of the grief that you might expect would come up when faced with such a with such a life experience. I would say I probably did a lot of that processing during the pregnancy realizing that I might have another c-section, that this might be my story, that I have c-sections and so yeah I would say like a lot of the harder moments were during the pregnancy but after the birth it was really really actually really great recovery compared to my first c-section because the r the infection really complicated the recovery the first time. So here I did not have an infection they were very um proactive about that. Barkasham Bar Hashem and yeah just got to enjoy my baby and yeah my miracle. Yeah wow that's amazing where do you see yourself now in your in your story in your journey yeah so at this point like it's it's really not something I think about it a lot at all when you when you reached out to me to talk about this like it took me a moment to be like wait do I want to go back there? Like it's so not it's so not like what I'm grappling with these days.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Bar Hashem I yeah it's thank you for going back there for us.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Yeah I'm I'm happy to I think there was a time when I really wanted to share this story and it is an important story to share so I'm happy that I'm happy to to share it. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share it.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

Of course thank you so much for for coming on and sharing it's it's so important for us to hear for anyone to hear different stories about how birth can happen and how birth can go.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Yeah really is yeah so now nowadays like I I I know that I have to have c sections I just had um my my baby is 16 months old Barfishem ah so cute so he was my first like scheduled c-section and it's quite an interesting experience to go into a scheduled c-section. There's a part of it that feels more you know planned and you know what to expect and you could schedule the babysitter and but it's it's still not you know perfectly in my control because especially because I I have to give birth at 37 weeks. So that was something that I was anxious about. I wanted to make sure the baby would be able to breathe and not have a Nic use day so that that's always unknown until the baby's getting to to be I basically was like wanting to give birth to have my c-section on the last day possible. So I ended up being in the hospital over Shabbos and someone asked me like well if you're choosing, if you're scheduling the C-section anyways, why would you like do it over a Shabbos where you'll have to be in the hospital over a Shabbos but I'm like I'd rather be in the hospital and Chavez than have my baby breathing on on his own, you know? And I also really wanted to have the C-section with with this doctor. So so that much I was able to plan like to have it with this doctor and just as late as possible.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

I guess that's the nice side of a plan C-section that you can you can control all those details that will make it a little bit more comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

Yes yes so some of them you can control and and I really was able to focus my energy on my recovery just making my recovery as easy as possible and hiring you know a night nurse to help with the with you know those first really challenging days and to just you know yeah like not to I can use all my energy to focus on on recovery basically which is the harder the harder part of a C-section right the birth might just take a few minutes but the recovery is where the challenge is at. Someone once shared like um something about like the moment that a woman feels like I can't do this anymore in birth is like that's the moment that her like her mother spirit is born, you know, like where like she realizes that she could do it and she can she gets this power of like this inner power of of being able to do the very difficult task of of raising children. Yeah. So I remember thinking like well I didn't have that moment but I definitely had that moment during recovery feeling like I can't do that anymore, you know? So um yeah so these days like I feel very at peace with my reality with with my c sections and thankfully my practice is very open to you know having as many babies as your body could handle. So there's no limit of like you know three C sections or and just whatever Hashem plans for you and whatever your body presents, you know.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Bar Hashem.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

So yeah Bar Hashem I feel I feel grateful for the ability to have children. And um there's a small ping that I feel when some occasionally when I hear someone talking about their you know their birth dream birth experience or just sharing about their birth you know like it's like like very randomly I'll feel like like hey I didn't get to experience that but for the most part it's it's it's not really grapple with yeah. I guess that I guess that's to give hope to someone who might be might be really struggling with this and processing it and um to know that like what feels really big today might you know a couple of years or down the line feel like another part of life, you know, not not such a loss anymore.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

Right. That you know time passes and life continues. Yeah. Thank you so much for for sharing your story.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

This experience of like just really really accepting the fact that Hashem is in charge is something that could really be powerful a a very powerful awareness in our lives in general outside of birth you know like that could be um that could almost be like it's just coming to mind now like that could almost be someone's rebirth of themselves of that moment of like Hashem is in charge and I'm in Hashem's hands and it's all meant it's all how it's meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

Yeah wow that's a really really good perspective. I love that I love that wow Ana thank you so much for sharing all of this with us there's it's so there's so many like parts there's courage there's honesty there's so much lived experience here and I'm so grateful that you trusted us with it with it to anyone who's listening to anyone who's listening and might be walking through something similar I hope that you can feel a little less alone um hearing an experience that might sound similar sometimes helps with that. And if this isn't your story, I hope that it opens something gentle in the way that you see the people around you and hear others' experiences. Thank you for spending this time with us. If this conversation stayed with you consider sharing it with another mom who might need to hear it too. Until next time, trust your intuition move gently and take care of yourself. Good night mamas